Electricity Prices & Rates In Ontario: Smart Meters



Will Smart Meters Cause my Electricity ("Hydro") Bill to Increase?

(Just want to see the rates and not the commentary? Scroll to the bottom!)

Toronto (and other places in Ontario) are moving to "smart meters" for electricity billing, where you pay a different rate depending on the time of day. This makes sense, as the cost of electricity does vary throughout the day, and there's currently no incentive for people to do things like cook a lunch or vacuum their house at 2AM instead of 2PM. Now, with smart meters, you can save yourself a few nickels by waking up in the middle of the night to do these already enjoyable chores!

In theory, with smart meters, if users don't change their habits, the amount of electricity sold and it's price should not change at all. If the overall amount that the average user pays for electricity increases with time-of-day billing smart meters, then there's a stealth price increase taking place. Of course, I'm talking about averages here, you may be above or below it. 

In theory, the change to smart meters should be revenue neutral at worst, and at best, decrease electricity revenue and increase electricity use, as people use more "cheap" electricity, and less "expensive" electricity.

The utilities will be sure to charge you for installing all of these smart meters of course, so you have to make enough changes in your lifestyles to counter-act this to end up saving money. I think that the cost of something represents how scarce that good is, and installing all these meters does use resources

It should be said that some small users have no chance of making enough changes to offset the cost of the meters themselves, and end up using more resources than they did before

What's the Real Price of Electricity Anyway?

The "Independent Electricity System Operator" determines the price in Ontario every 5 minutes based on supply and demand. You can see the current hourly rate here. On average, you should be paying this rate through the smart-meter. Maybe one day they'll configure the smart meters to actually charge the real-time rate, but that'll confuse people, and the backlash for paying the actual cost of something would be incredible.

An interesting aside is that electricity prices in Ontario have actually dropped significantly over the past year, due to industrial decline, but also mild seasons and changing energy use patterns. Examples of these changes include changing from incandescent lights to CFLs, tower PCs to laptops and CRT TVs to LCD TVs, all of which reduce electricity demand (and as a result, price) substantially. Appliances have steadily improved in efficiency, and those old refrigerators and such are now finally getting sent to the recyclers.

For the first week of June, the average weighted price of electricity generation in Ontario has been just above 1 cent/kwh.

Here are the average real monthly prices for electricity over the past year in Ontario: 

(In other words, these are the amounts paid to electricity generators, like Ontario Power Generation)

Ontario Electricity Prices Paid to Generators: May 2002 to April 2009

An electricity crisis? Not a chance, not in Ontario, prices are actually trending down and set 7-year record lows in April 2009. Other costs that aren't included, like "distribution", "transmission" and "service charges" aren't included here and may be going up or down.

I'd also like to point out that electricity users are paying for the real price of electricity, it is not subsidized, but it was before, and current users are paying back for it (Debt Retirement Charge), so it's actually the opposite of subsidized. 

Here are the old summer electricity rates that residential users without activated smart meters pay:

5.7 ¢/kWh for the first 600 kWh in a month
6.6 ¢/kWh for each additional kWh

Of course, this is only the cost for the electricity, excluded are transmission charges, distribution charges, 

Here are the new "Smart-Meter" summer electricity rates for Toronto (and the rest of Ontario):

Week-ends and holidays: 4.2 ¢/kWh

Weekdays
¢/kWh
7 am to 11 am 7.6¢/kWh
11 am to 5 pm 9.1¢/kWh
5 pm to 10 pm 7.6¢/kWh
10 pm to 7 am 4.2¢/kWh

Conclusions on Smart Meters and Ontario Electricity Pricing

To be honest, based on my gut instinct, I'm calling this a (temporary) stealth price increase. It may very well be a total price increase if one's electricity consumption isn't sufficiently shifted to cover the costs of the meters themselves, which is especially true for light users (like cottagers). Many of the biggest electricity loads run during peak or mid-peak times and are almost impossible to shift, such as air conditioning, TVs, PCs, hot water usage and cooking. Most people aren't going to shift cooking dinner from 6:00PM to 10:00PM. Now there's actually less incentive to turn off that PC overnight. The only thing I think people will do is change the timing of their laundry and pool pumps, and really, during those really hot days of the year (when electricity is the most expensive), you should be drying outdoors anyway. It takes a load off your air conditioner too.

I'll bet that the Ontario Energy Board will lower these rates at their next review, since Ontarians will be overpaying for electricity with these rates. 

Crazy high rates

I hope the government will intervene at some point and help find a solution to these high rates with Hydro One. I get they need to find ways to pay off a deficit and have alot of issues and problems, but this system is not sustainable. My electric bill for one month for January 2014 was $620, in a 2 bedroom small 980 square foot house with a Geothermal system. This bill is less than last year at this time when it was $800, we had a hot tub then and a stove, now when things break they do not get fixed since we have no extra money, just to make sure electric bills are paid. How can anyone afford these bills? What is the government doing to stop this. I heard the energy rates will go up by 45% by 2015, how will I ever pay $1200 for a one month electric bill in the future? I'm looking at solar power potentially, for $24,000 it seems worth the investment when you see how much the projected bills will be with HydroOne. I just don't know how people can afford these bills and how the government of Canada can allow and expect people to pay more than their mortgage or rent just for electricity. Rich get richer poor get poorer.

Smart Meters a big fraud and rip off

Hi All,

I live in Brampton. Smart meter idea was launched and a lot of people were fooled into getting one on the basis of " they will save money and energy - Blah blah"". Hydro representative advised me the same you shift your usage to off peak and save tons of money. I asked him 1 question have you ever done maths.
Analysis: Simple meter which is obiously not that smart help us pay less.
a) 5.7 ¢/kWh for the first 600 kWh in a month. Most people use in this bracket for 1700-2300 sqft home with 4 adults in the family
b) 6.6 ¢/kWh for each additional kWh . Even if they go over 600 then that much portion gets charged 6.6cents which is still great
Lets a family used 800 kWh in a month so that means they paid 600*5.7 cents = $34.20 and paid 200*6.6 = $13.20
total = 34.20+13.20 = $47.40 + delivery +tax and god knows what they charge us. which was still awesome.

Smart meter rates now
Time Rate Scenario 1 usage Scenario 2 usage Scenario 3 usage Scenario 4 usage
7 am to 11 am - 10.0 ¢/kWh 100*10cents = 10 70*10= 7 100*10=10 0
11 am to 5 pm - 11.7 ¢/kWh 60*11.7= 7.02 50*11.7 = 5.85
5 pm to 7 pm - 10.0 ¢/kWh 100* 10 = 10 70*10=7 150*10 =15
7 pm to 7 am - 6.5 ¢/kWh 600*6.5 = 39 600*6.5 = 39 500*6.5=32.5 800*6.5 = 52
Total $59 $60 $63.35 $52

I have shown very conservative ways of using electricity which really doesn't happen in any household except maybe Scenario 3 is the most closest of regular household for using the electricty. But still in comparison to simple meters all 4 show increase even if I shift all my load to off peak it still charges me more.

SO the BIG Question where is the saving which is talked about. I am paying double since they put me on this very smart meter. I didn't switch until they forced me. Well I am asking why the choice is n't given to the consumer.

Give us a choice or please be mathematically be advanced enough that you can really offer an incentive. Hydro One is saving more now because no one has to go to read the meter yet electricity has gone expensive. Only reason is some one is building the storage houses for money. Premier Dalton Mcguinty has genunaly not done 1 good thing. He should be gone and same for conservatives.

I would lets give a chance to someone else like NDP. I know I am just raising a question smart meters but my blood is boiling looking at those fools making general public a fool and then leaving no choice to people who understand the gimmick as 90% people already got converted based on the lies of these people.

Thanks. Just review the analysis

Smart Meters not the only BIG FRAUD and RIPOFF!!!

The smart meter rip off is only the beginning it seems.
Hydro One has another thing gong; billing for electrical consumption not yet used or metered.
Only with Hydro, can on expect to pay for what one has not yet consumed.
This could be a case for class action if enough people have had enough of getting royally screwed by this monopoly and have the guts to complain.
We are paying now well over 16cents per kWHr with all the extra charges just because those who control this organization have no sense of shame when they give exorbitant salaries and pensions and make big mistakes like $600,000,000 on a gas plant that was supposedly not needed and paying the hot air and sun gods over 40 cents per kWhr for electricity that is worth only 4 cents. That's where the consumer comes in to pay up the difference.
Lets put a stop to these games at the expense of all those who can barely afford to put food on the table and have to keep thermostats down to 10C in the winter and turn off all the lights just to keep alive avoid losing there house or getting thrown out of there apartments.
Where are those good politicians supposedly looking after our interests, most likely looking after their own interests, no guts to stand up for what is right and for the less fortunate in this province being brought down into the gutter. No complaints on their parts, they get paid whatever happens.

Andre Perras

Hydro

I would not mind so much the cost of hydro if I, being alone, in a small place and not even using my heat was not paying more than a larger house which I have compared with many of my co-workers. According to the hydro when I called, the gal answering said repeatedly we do not compare with any other usuage. Well, I'd say its about time they did. If I am paying almost double in a small apt than larger houses even with more than one floor. She asked twice if I have hydro heat, which I do BUT DON'T USE. Does that mean
I should start using the hydro heat, then maybe my bill would go down?????

FREE ENERGY FROM OUTERSPACE

Queens university apparently did a study on the cost of solar power last year and reported it is at parity with utility derived power. Since I got laid off recently (thanks to you) I did my own study and discovered that solar power is actually 2-3 times cheaper if you can DIY. If I was working I never would have had the time to do this! Funny how that works huh? Now blogging is like my new job (again thanks to you). I kind of miss working and paying taxes though. Maybe you can put in a good word for me and make sure I stay gainfully employed this time.

You simply don't get it

The irony of your "blog" is not lost upon us. Just get laid off bro? Good news for us they are finally being forced to control costs. Looks like the money tree in the backyard just got chopped down eh? Free speech - ain't it great? When all else fails fall back on the old "there's gonna be blackouts" rhetoric. Lol srsly?

You simply don't get it.

For starters I think it's too bad some idiot can get on the web and "blog" about things just to blow off even though they don't have a clue about what they are talking about.

Hydro One is in deep financial trouble. They are our only supplier of electrical energy. Yes the company has been miss-managed. Yes we are seeing higher prices. Yes people are upset, but the reality is we, the tax payers, are the only people who can fix this.

The entire system is very fragile and unless it receives a sufficient infusion of money it will fail and fail every time there is a weather event. So go ahead and complain, cut the rates, as our Liberal Government did to win votes. We'll see how happy you all are when you spend days in the dark without power after every major event that occurs. But then of course you'll all complain about that too, and want it all fixed for free. The money tree in the back yard will pay for it.

It must be frustrating for those in office to have to deal with a never ending stupid society.

you simply dont get it

Yes, your right! A stupid society that puts up with the huge pay cheques that hydro one employee's take home and execs with their huge payouts and pensions. No wonder the system is in trouble. Maybe they should have a meeting at Tim Horton's on our dime since their trucks are parked there more than they are on the job.

Hydro One Smart Meter

Well, we along like everyone else feel we're being ripped off. We ordered the TED 5000 and hooked it up to our electrical panel. Give you three guesses and the first two don't count. HYDRO ONE is double charging us for using. According to the TED 5000 we are using half the electricity they say we are. This rip off has been happening since December of last year 2010 and we're fed up. I have spoken to Hydro One on numerous occasions and they told me "IT'S YOUR PROBLEM". We were told to contact Measurements Canada to complain we think our meter is inaccurate and purchased the TED 5000 this month. So what do we do now? We're going to track the usage, file a complaint to Measurements Canada and they will change our meter....We feel sorry for people who cannot afford the hydro bills. We pay our bills each month and we're both at work all. SERIOUSLY. Any suggestions, do we start to cause problems so we're heard?????

BC Hydro Smart Meters--a mouthful

You folks in Ontario are not alone. Here in BC we are in the middle of Smart Meter installation. Actually, a Hydro rep stated that 99% of BCers are in favour of Smart Meters. What he neglected to say was that many of those 99% did not want a Smart Meter but were intimidated for fear of having their power off, and that BC province legislated that everyone had to have one. There were no public consultations, since the first notice in newspapers in 2008, in spite of my asking the premier. The price then was cited to be $500,000 for the whole province. In 2010 it went up to $900,000 and this morning in the news it is going to be $1 Billion, and possibly rising, particularly if they have to undo what they have done.
Citizens for Safe Technology have a website and have a lawyer who is challenging the forcing of Smart Meters on everyone, in spite of health and privacy concerns, not to mention safety, as there are many incidents where Smart Meters had interfered with an anti arc switch and wires heated up and burned the house, or in some cases, appliances. Some of us have mailed BC Hydro to let them know we do not want a meter, have posted a sign beside our wired meter (see Citizens for Safe Technology website for a form you can print), and another post, saying that we are on the Hold List of BC Hydro. Apparently, we and others who have done the same, are on the same list and slated to have the meters installed "last". This, to me, is a constitutional issue. We have rights to "security of person" in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Provinces do have the power to legislate on power issues, the Canada Constitutional Act. However, it may need to go to court to determine our rights to security of our health. I doubt that Hydro companies want us to opt out, as that would leave them without us to pay, especially if many of us declare that we will opt out, rather than expose ourselves to such questionable technology. There is also the issue re fires. Hydro companies will not pay the damages, and one's insurance company requires a deductible, and likely will raise insurance fees after claims are made. Bees are affected by electromagnetic wireless energy and once the Smart Grid is all in place all over the planet, as is planned, what will be the effect on our major pollinators, and on our food sources? Have you heard of the Site "C" dam that BC Hydro wants to build in northern BC, by flooding a huge mass of valuable farmland? The Hydro is slated for shale gas exploration, fracking, the Enbridge pipeline, the Alberta tar sands, and uranium mining in the North West Territories. BC Hydro says we need the extra energy, but it is not for the average resident. It is for these huge "economic", environmentally damaging projects. Schools are removing wireless computers that have been affecting students and 47 cities, I believe, in the U.S. are removing Smart Meters. Manitoba installed Smart Meters without informing residents that the meters are wireless. When hydro companies tell us that they are as safe as cell phones (I don't use them) and that they operate for no more than one minute per day, why should we believe them, after they have misled us on costs, safety aspects, and torn off Do Not Install signs and installed the meters anyway? How can one trust a government and its hydro company when they impose a law, without consultation or proper informing?

billing increases

I am trying to gather examples of significant increases in numbers of kilowatt hours, not rates or prices, with the introduction of smart meters to help with a study I'm doing with some experts to determine the accuracy of smart meters. I don't think they are accurate and we need examples of number of billed hours during the comparable period before smart meters and after, and I need examples from different parts of the country. could you please sent to me? -- Sharon Noble, Director, Coalition to Stop Smart Meters, Victoria, BC, email director@stopsmartmetersbc.ca. Thanks.

My last bill(last month) was

My last bill(last month) was $143.00 ans since the smart meter - my 1st bill is over $500.00. I have phoned and emailed BC Hydro many times but no one calls me back. I am a widow and can't afford to lose my home. What can I do?

The stupid meters are great!

The stupid meters are great! Instead of them being accountable and financially responsible they are forcing me to be. Latest bill: 100kwh down from 800kwh a year ago. 8 times less usage but the bill is still almost half of what it was for 800kwh of usage. For me this represents a quadrupling in costs. Are they punishing those that conserve the most? Next stop off grid solar. Thank NAFTA for the cheap Chinese panels and zero jobs. Lol idiots.

RATES GO UP AGAIN

Rates went up 3% on Nov. 1st. My usage went down about 20% in response to this latest cash grab. How? I switched to all LED lighting.

CFL has bad power factor meaning that an 11watt bulb is actually burning 18watts. Consequently I replaced 60watts (actually uses 90watts) of CFL with 18watts LED. Now I am using 5 times less energy. This is a permanent change my family and I have made in an effort to boycott Ontario hydro and it's ongoing legacy of debt reduction charges and other billing anomalies.

No savings for switching to off peak courtesy Dalton's stupid meters means the only way to save is to www.flickoff.org.

BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT BOYCOTT
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Dumb and dumber

Hahaha that takes the bloody cake - energy resellers trying to curbside "services" on here. Unsuprisingly kumar has not provided a list of satisfied customers or any actual pricing information his company provides. Not that any educated consumer actually cares. How are those global adjustments working out kumar? Roflmao.

BETTER BUSINESS BUREAU

Here's a little clip from Richard Wakefileds blog and his take on energy retailers:

Tuesday, September 13, 2011DO NOT SIGN UP WITH RETAILERS
by Richard Wakefield
Because of the BullFrog BS, I will post this again.

DO NOT SIGN UP WITH RETAILERS!!!

You will pay a LOT more for power. There is NO SAVINGS to be had with fixed rates. These retailers MUST include the Global Adjustment (See IESO for price) which can DOUBLE your rates. Today the GA is 4.46 ¢/kWh while the hourly price is 3.56 ¢/kWh. This is because we have a glut of power on line, and when that happens the hourly price drops, and the GA increases.

So when retailer reps come to the door to try and sign you up, tell them to piss off.

Hydro need to be stopped abusing the citizens of Ontario

It is an absolute travesty that Hydro Ottawa is allowed to force this abusive system onto consumers who have no choice but to accept it. There have been articles in the press that hydro is threatening to cut off electricity as punishment to people who will not conform and install a Smart Meter. The province of Ontario already charges taxes that are far too high and this is not a case of just another $10. We need to stop this type of dictatorial corporate behavior regarding a necessity of life, i.e., heat in the cold and cool in the heat. I applaud you for this blog, Dan Matan. I wonder if you've written anything about the price of gas?

MORE EXCITING NEWS!!!

THE BIG QUESTION??

Is Ontario hydro and its 15,000 handsomely compensated employees aware that 90% of them can be replaced by something called a "solar panel" now?

Zero maintenance. Zero personnel to operate. Zero operating costs. Zero fuel. Zero emissions. Zero rocket scientists. Zero CEOs. Zero middlemen. Thats alot of zeros plus I probably missed a few. The really incredible thing though is how fast "zero" is going to replace "billions" overnight. Energy crysis solved.

Sexy looking business model huh? I guess it's going to be kinda like what happened to bell telephone operators and bank tellers - except in that case people liked them.

ELIMINATE THE MIDDLEMAN?

I love the new business model. How "fast" are you going to "adopt"?

I am "adopting" it RIGHT NOW.

Your friend,
B. Cott

Mr. Cott: Just what kind of

Mr. Cott: Just what kind of system do you plan on installing?
I agree that, with the way electricity pricing keeps going, generating electricity one's self will be the better option, but probably not with solar.

TOU REALLY WORKS!

It does???? Over the course of the last 12 months I used a battery bank and conservation techniques to transfer 80% of my usage to off peak. Got the bills. Analyzed them. Amount saved: NOTHING (in terms of cost per KWH for changing my usage behavior). Hmmmmmm seems kinda FALSE OR MISLEADING to me.

No change in overall pricing per kilowatt no matter what I did. No real savings at all (unless you stop using it) anyway you slice it between 200-800 KWH range of monthly usage. If you defer use to off peak they increase the delivery rates (or other) so as to maintain an average cost of 20 cents per kilowatt hour (plus or minus 1.3 cents per KWH typically). I TRANSFERRED 80% OF MY USAGE TO OFF PEAK TO VERIFY THESE FACTS. LOL. Neat little shell game though - definitely lots of fun to play. Monopoly is my favorite game too. So is lemon aid stand economics. If you double prices....

ROFL.

You must be careful with

You must be careful with battery banks, you lose a lot of efficiency in the charge/discharge cycle, especially in seasons where this thermal output is a bad thing. Battery life isn't infinite either.

I personally suspect that overall price increases were implemented at the time of TOU billing implementation to hide the increases.

Battery bank bailout

Lead acid battery technology has been in use for over 100 years. Safe. Trusted. Reliable. Powerful. Inexpensive. 90% charge/dishcarge efficiency is typical except that you don't have to pay a multi taxed loss adjustment factor fee on top of it. There is a reason why they are still around and used in every car on the road with zero competition to this day. Thermal issues can be resolved by storing them in climate controlled areas. People that own RV's and boats know what I am talking about as they are already off grid.

Cheap batteries last up to 10 years. That's a long time. A $600 battery bank that lasts 10 years only costs $60 a year. Is that alot of money? I spend more on coffee lol. Good batteries can last 10 or 20 years. It's really not that hard. You will see posts that say you need hundreds off $300 batteries. You don't. For a big system you are talking a couple grand and it will last a couple of decades. I actually built my system overnight in direct response to TOU using readily available off the shelf components. Hooking up 12v is really easy. I had 4 blackouts here in the last 5 months and my off grid system has had none. I am using all LED lighting now as well so my consumption is virtually nothing. TOU is a scam and I am joining the boycott hydro movement.

Its ppl like you that are

Its ppl like you that are holding this world back....it does mean alot and the more ppl that are aware of this situation..the more likely there will be something done...stop trying to help them you idiot.

Shut Up

Only read a few comments but you people are insane. Boycotting hydro will only make the situation worse; it is a huge network that needs to be fixed as it is our only reliable source. All the posts I read said they still use hydro when they need it, well guess what, if its not there you don't get to flush your toilet, or maybe you hippies use outhouses. I am only 30 so my generation was not involved in the screw up of hydro but we have to pay for it, thanks for the "me decade (80's)". Suck it up buttercup and deal with the situation instead of run from it. And besides, just before I found this post I calculated my hydro bill with a smart meter and the HST added on and I am paying $10 more a month, not going to kill me. For my actual usage I paid $2.93 more, and that was on a $200 plus bill and with 2 AC's running because it was too hot for my young kids. Most months I figure I save money because of the smart meters. Plus most of the posts I read seem to be by childless single men who don't have anything else in life but complain about the government, my kids would not wait for me to heat their meal by candle light. The best part is I bet most of you have wasted more energy than I will use in my lifetime, the situation was created and hidden from us under the conservatives and now that the Liberals are trying to fix it it's their fault. You people that complain about the current situation are just stupid and ignorant. The Liberals didn't put us here.

re. SHUT UP <--HAHA YOU SHOULD FLICK OFF

re. SHUT UP

HAHA YOU SHOULD FLICK OFF

I did! Installing solar panels and practicing conservation assisted me in reducing my usage by a factor of 4 with NO COMPROMISE in my standard of living. 4 times less taxation. 4 times less profiteering. 4 times less billable electricity requires 4 times less generating capacity. It looks like I just solved alot of problems by "flicking off" as per the ingenious "FLICK OFF" campaign. Haha thanks guys! Great website BTW. I'm FLICKING OFF like you told me to and its working! Who knew it was so easy to just turn everything off? I never would have known if it wasn't for the website! Real life saver.

Here's the funny part - since I saved so much money my standard of living actually increased. One example is instead of giving them money for nothing now I go out and buy big fat juicy steaks for me and my family to enjoy. When I get home I throw them on the BBQ and cook them using SECRET TECHNOLOGY that requires NO ELECTRICITY. How did I do it? Is it magic? All I can say is I love BBQ'ing and I am more than happy if I get an excuse to do more! Slow roasted meats, beans, stews, fish, vegetables, etc. - I can cook everything on it and I will now thanks to you guys! Mmmmmmmm.....NO ELECTRICITY.

Hey anyways here's that cool website I was talking about earlier. Check it out! It's really cool...

http://www.flickoff.org/

Lots of great tips!*

Enjoy! :D

*This website, including articles, is property of 2242356 Ontario Ltd.

typical post from a liberal supporter

First off it's easy to blame someone else for the errors of the world. We older people blamed our parents, you blame us, just wait, your kids will blame you for everything that is wrong. My family trys to do everything in off hours to save on our hydro costs. My bill still TRIPLED !!! Fees for this, fees for that, you really don't get it do you ? If the liberals are so great then why has our debt soared under their leadership ? Taxes have risen so much that eventually YOU will not be able to afford some of the most basic items you need.
Your right about wasting energy as I have wasted enough on your idiotic views..............

duh

Among many issues with your post, we are in the worst economy since the 1920's and we are not out of it. I bet your one of those people who blame Barack Obama because he is the head of the snake right now, because heaven forbid George Bush did anything wrong. The best part is that people like you are now trying to conserve energy to save money, not because you care about the planet. I bet your one of the people who still don’t believe in global warming, because everyone is out to get YOU. I hope your kids see you as an arrogant prick, because you can tell by your tone. Typical conservative supporter with their head up their own... but you right, your not worth the energy.

your right.if I'm a prick

your right.if I'm a prick your an idiot !

Perhaps it should be pointed

Perhaps it should be pointed out that the term is 'you're' or better still 'you are'. I suggest you take a course in English grammar before you call anyone an idiot.

Smart Meter rental

When smart meters first appeared I remember reading that we were to be charged $4.00 a month rental fee plus tax.
This rental fee seems to hidden somewhere in paperwork.
Any info on this?
Why should we have to pay HST on the debt retirement?

HYDRO ONES RIDICULOUS DELIVERY CHARGE

I to have a cottage and just received my bill for 3 months. I used $285.00 in hydro. However, Hydro One charged me $416.00 to deliver it and $25.00 for their debt retirement plus HST ontop of all that, for a grand total of $768.00. WOW!!! Another mortgage thanks to McGuinty and friends.

It does kind of make sense

It does kind of make sense though. Your cottage is most likely quite far away from the vast majority of power generation.

hydro one

Bought a cottage march 5th. Since then I used 370.00 in hydro up to August 16th. My bill, 1092.00.????????

I got a $4000 bill for my cottage and I am not even there!

Hahaha I love reading posts like that. You know that 99% of these losers pay it as soon as hydro claps their hands. They just bend over and take it then cry about it on here. Good job Sheeple, you sure showed them. All ready for your next fleecing?

I actually have a new found respect for Ontario hydro in this regard. Who else could scam so many people for so much money and get away with it? Take em to court and if you win they charge you for it on your next bill. Who else in the world could get away with doing that?

It's hilarious that people are actually dumb enough to just hand over thousands of dollars to them. Did you get any Nigerian gold with that? Want to buy some rainforest? Yeah you sure showed them. I bet they are laughing as hard as I am when they read these little cry baby Sheeple posts. I bet you would make a nice sweater.

POWER TO THE SHEEPLE!!

So Sheeple, what do you

So Sheeple, what do you suggest we do genius. You laugh, yet you say take them to court and if they win, they'll bill you for it. So whats the plan idiot. Seasonal customers pay huge now. I'm at the cottage summer and winter but unless you are there for 4 days a week for 8 months of the year (obviously rules made by retired hydro one exec's) then you cant be considered residential. So seasonal pay through the nose for 1 part(distribution volume charge) of the 4 part delivery charge at 8.257 cents per kWh while the guy next door can say he's a resident paying 3.267 cents per kWh while he enjoys his 4 month trip to Florida. This part of the delivery charge is two and a half times the price of the hydro you used. Where did they come up with this outrages factor? And yes we also pay $24 a month even if we use 0 electricity. So, should we all become residents since they know they can get away with this rip off. Only thing left to do since complaints are laughed at by hydro one, ombudsman, oeb, government and bloggers like you. THEN WE'LL GET POWER TO THE SHEEPLES AT A PROPER AND FAIR RATE.

So Sheeple, your laughing yet

So Sheeple, your laughing yet you suggest if we take hydro one to court they will only charge us on our next bill if we win. So genius, whats your plan idiot. If your seasonal, you pay huge. 8.257 cents per kWh but if your there at your cottage for 4 days a week for 8 months of the year your residential and you pay only 3.267 cents per kWh which is only 1 part of 4 parts that make up their delivery charge(distribution volume charge). So the only way out is to become a resident like the retired hydro one employees who spend summers at the cottage and winters in Florida. I think I solved my huge seasonal rip off delivery charge problem.

????

????

Baaaaahhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!

You are welcome. Watch out for those higher rural delivery charges though. You are going to make thousands and thousands of rich executives very happy.

No charges for lower rates

Smart meters transmit to the hydro offices kwh used and when. But this never appears on the bills. The bills only show total kwh used. How do we know we are being charged at lower rates?

Tips to reduce your usage.

OEB reduce the rates? Hahaha that's a good one. I am so sick of the decades of mismanagement there that now I just want to boycott them altogether. Why keep rewarding them? Here is my list of tips for conserving the maximum amount possible.

TOU: the obvious one. Try to use power during off peak to get the better rate.

Lighting: switch to cfl and candles and led

Cooking: eat more food that doesn't require cooking: salads, sandwiches, etc. Also I have been experimenting with cooking using tealites. It works! Some things are easier than others. But you can cry bacon, cook pancakes, make pasta - just about anything you cook stove top can be done on tealites. It is fun experimenting and they cost less than hydro! Cooking represents a large portion of my electrical bill and I have managed to replace 50-70% of my cooking on candles. - it's now part of my daily routine and it feels good knowing that I am actively doing something while they continue to exploit their captive market. BBQ more often! Now I hardly use electricity to cook.

Microwave ovens: I plugged mine into a kilowatt and it read off the scale at over 2000 watts. I no longer use my microwave. You can reheat many things on candles. I reheat all my frozen leftovers this way now rather than give business to a corrupt monopoly. Boycott.

Standby power: Unplug everything you are not using or put them on switchable power bars. Why give them money for nothing?

Radio: I switched to a solar powered am/fm radio after the tou was introduced and all the subsequent rate increases. Fight fire with fire. If rates double then I try to use half as much. You can offset all their greedy market manipulations. The radio also has a led lite which I actually use now instead of turning on lights.

Tv: energy star 40" LCD uses 80 watts on low brightness and 120 watts on max. Doesn't really matter much since I cancelled my Rogers cable and switched to free HDTV by installing a hd antenna. $900 a year in savings. Adios rogeros. They refused to give me any deals until I told them to cancel my account. Then they were tripping over themselves to offer me packages and special offers. Too late.

Computers: switched from a high power desktop to a laptop that uses 10 times less power. I used to leave my Internet router and modem on all the time. Although they together only use 10 watts checking further reveals that their power supplies are only 50% efficient meaning they are actually using 20 watts. They get shut off when not in use now.

Solar power: I bought and installed my own 200 watt solar array. I get about 800 watts a day for free ( no stupid taxes, delivery fees or other imaginary charges). Not much but since I only use 5 kwh a day or less it actually represents almost 20% of my needs. Not bad for a couple off cheap panels! This means I am just a few panels away from total independence from the grid. Not only that but my battery bank allows me to use my own power during on peak /mid peak time of use bs. Then if I am running low I plug it in to recharge during off peak.

Fridge: I have an energy star fridge that only uses 635 kwh per year. That's about 1.73 kwh per day. This is cheap to run but still represents nearly 40% of my daily usage. Eventually I would like to get a sunsaver fridge that only uses 0.121 kwh per day. They are the same price as regular fridges.

Before I started doing this I was using 20 kw a day. Now I am just a few solar panels away from being virtually off grid. I expect to get my usage down below 3 kwh per day. The goal is to go off grid completely someday. I refuse to pay these idiots $0.70 in taxes and fees for every $0.30 worth of electricity that I use. We have all seen to what great use all that money went to create ontario hydro. They sold it off at 50 cents on the dollar and they are making us pay for it twice plus debt retirement. Are they smoking crack? There is nothing they can do to fix this situation. It is seriously out of control. They went bankrupt once already and now they are bankrupting this province and its residents. Time to boycott the monopoly.

SMART METERS

We have them here and our hydro is 3x the amount, we are paying for McGuinty/Harper and the bloated government and ontario hydro, not to mention solar which DOESN'T work in Canada !! And we use our hydro on off peak - ITS A MONEY GRAB!!!

BOYCOTT THESE LOSERS

Actually solar does work and not only that but it is both free and tax free. I love it because I am using solar power to boycott them and their corrupt broken system and decreasing their tax revenue streams that is feeding this whole pile of garbage. Win win win win! That's 4 wins!

The current government is making solar look bad by pitting ratepayers against each other: rewarding microFIT installations by punishing everyone else during a crysis. Yet another stupid and uneducated move on the governments behalf and bad timing to boot. But that's what you get when you hire a lawyer/politician to do an engineers job. They have done a very poor job of managing the situation and the microFIT incentives are grossly inflated bordering on fraud. They will decrease over time or be cancelled all together. Anyone greedy enough to attempt to capitalize on microFIT is apparently oblivious to the history of gov incentives (they disappear overnight with the next change in gov) and ignorant of hydros 50 to 100 odd years of corruption that ended in a massive collapse. I would advise you to seek out better business partners in your future business endeavors. If you got duped don't worry your not alone - all of Ontario got duped. Creating artificial rates and getting extorted to the tune of billions of dollars by the failed nuclear industry is what got us into this mess in the first place. Gov solution: keep doing it. I guarantee you that if we had actual competition no one would pay these microFIT installations $0.80. You got hustled.

As I post this I am doing so on my laptop which is off grid solar powered while I cook my morning breakfast of oatmeal on tealite candles. Net power usage from the failed monopoly: ZERO. My hydro bills are down to almost nothing aside from $60-70 per bill in imaginary expenses, ceo golden parachutes, overpaid sunshine list unions, and delivery fees and fraudulent debt payments. I do not agree with any of this and I am going to take my business elsewhere any way I can. I would rather starve, sit alone in the dark or spend whatever it takes to boycott them. What are you willing to do? Standing on the shoulders of giants: I want to give my thanks to other posters for all their valuable information. It is obvious to me that we cannot fight this broken corrupt pile of garbage because it is a monopoly and we are a captive market. Even if you win all you won is a pile of garbage and lies. The only solution is to boycott and vote with our dollar. That is the only thing these idiots understand. I refuse to play their game. Sinking to their level means you have already lost. The fight you can win starting today is to boycott. Turn everything off. Trust me it feels good. Get started on your backyard solar project. The panels are down to $0.74 a watt. It's cheap. It's happening now. DIY and forget about microFIT.

Support Groups / Protest Groups

There are groups forming across Canada over the frustration from Smart Meters, so if you are the first in your town, refer to references on other sites on how to get rolling. Smart Meters are causing health problems, high bills and more. Those who support smart meters wont be supporting it forever, Just heard about the group in London Ontario, Way to go guys!

Against Smart meters in Ottawa

Is there a support group in place ready to challenge Hydro Ottawa from forcably installing Smart Meters against our collective will? How long can we stall the company from putting one of these in our home? Is there a legal route to resisting installation> Please advise.

Uhhhh, what is the exact

Uhhhh, what is the exact problem you have with the Smart Meters?

Health Effects of Smart Meters

Hydro One installed SMART METER on my house last year since then i have had headaches, and have been feeling sick.
This meter is on the outside wall behind the headboard of my bed.
i have tried to have it replaced with and old style meter but hydro one insists that they will not do this.
My bills have sky rocketed, and i am falling further and further behind,... now they have told me i have to pay a securiry deposit of $800.00 or my hydro will be terminated.

I doubt the meters are

I doubt the meters are causing your headaches or sickness.

In what way have your bills sky-rocketed, are you using more electricity, or just at the "wrong" times?

Health effects of RF energy aka the stupid meters

Recently cell phones were linked to increased rates of brain cancers and other health problems. We all knew that holding a microwave transmitter against our head was probably unhealthy. 30 years later: confirmed. Similarly the smart meters are even higher powered transmitters and they are transmitting our usage statistics to the mother ship 24/7 irradiating our homes and the general environment with increased levels of unhealthy RF energy constantly. Please enjoy responsibly. Some people are very sensitive to this energy and it produces nausea or interferes with their sleep patterns thereby compromising their immune systems leading to a variety of seemingly unrelated health effects. These types of claims have been validated by the medical and scientific communities. On this basis they will probably be seeing a huge amount of court cases that will probably be successful. These dimwits could have used x20 technology whereby you transmit the info over the wires instead - but hey that would have been smart. These are stupid meters that we are talking about here installed by a stupid desperate company that doesn't give a $h1t about it's customers other than to figure out new ways to rip them off. Their legacy not only lives on but it's getting worse. Boycott the corrupt stupid monopoly. They could have done this with "wired" technology. Maybe they can spray your home with agent orange next service visit. That's safe too.

smartmeters

Actually they will be causing your sicknesses, headaches like thousands of other people are reporting all over north america.
otherwise healthy people with Zero of these symptoms all "get them" some within hours of installation.

Hundreds of dr's confirm this. If people's plants are dying all around these meters, what do you think it does to humans?

Here DAN why dont you do us all a favour on your blog, we can even do a $1000 wager to "prove you right"

Take two, four whatever amount of plants you want take one group and water with normal water....

Take the second and use microwaved water that has been let to cool, water for a few weeks after about 5 watering most of them will be dead or very close. Let your kids have fun and do this 'harmless' family experiment.

Let us all know the results! (ps anyone else who does this plants die sometimes within days).... HARMLESS????

Hydro Delivery Charges

My total bill Mar 8 to May 9, 2011 $71.08 minus $46.82 = $24.26 is for only consumption of electricity. I stay alone and use maximu lights and a TV. Last bill delivery (charge) $16.38. I am surprised why recent bill entry of deliery $46.82.
What is this, baby delivered in hospital and coming in this world to use hydro is ot this much as delivery is free in govt. hospital and electricy delivery is really too much.

Dumb meters and Norman bates

I switched all lighting to cfl and cut my total kwh usage by 67%. But with tou peak and mid rates basically double previous rates my bill has only increased. What a broken and screwed system. Businesses will leave this province due to a lack of affordable energy and then so will citizens. A real tribute to effective government. The biggest slap in the face is that they have cheap surplus energy as a result of successful conservation efforts by the citizens of ontario they are selling to other provinces and the states. They paid a $250 million fine to Bruce power for not buying enough electricity from them. Dalton there aren't any words in the dictionary to describe what you have done to ontarians. Tax payers want accountability laws asap. Instead of stupid combatitve governments that can't balance budgets or represent their tax payers. When I retire I will be off grid for sure. Ontario has a $90 billion deficit. Toronto has a $6 billion deficit. Not long until the collapse I figure - just like Rome. Just keep raising taxes and borrowing money while letting the deficits grow. Soon your credit rating will be so bad that your friends at the banks will reject your loan applications = government collapse. Sell all publicly held and paid for assets for peanuts and authorize private companies to rip us off. Yay Ontario! Yours to discover! Go back to chasing ambulances Norman bates. How do these retards get into power?

the way we are billed.

The dept charge, the lose facter charge. electric is grounded there is no such a thing as loss facter. And there is no such a thing as a dept, what aboat the forty million doller prfit every three moaths where is my count of that.

Is this even possible

This week I received an interim bill

These are actual readings - nothing has changed except on the interim bill it states interim bill due to meter and rate change - so I am assuming that they installed smart meters in my building. By my estimation the most recent bill should be approx 2 kwh less than it was.

Mar 31, 2011 6.074 kwh 90 days or .06478 per day
dec 31, 2011 2.616 kwh 71 days or .03684 per day
october 20, 2010 2.703 kwh 58 days or .04660 per day
aug 23, 2010 2.016 kwh

I don't know what to do. I am a single parent - we live in a rental on one income and with these kind of bills added to rent I could be living someplace way nicer for what amounts to $1600 + a month.

Also I dont quite understand the frequency of the bills. Any ideas?

smart meters

Has anyone noticed?? Since this meter has been installed on my house,I have headaches, dizziness, high blood pressure!!
Once I go away from my home I feel normal again!! anyone else?

smart meters

yes i have the same thing
i sent 1000 documents to the Canadian and Ontario Government on the Dangers asking for a RCMP investigation in heath canada and a ban on smart meters
we need people to stand up at election time and ask Q

wireless smart meters

I have not been feeling well since a smart meter was installed in my basement, directly underneath my bed. This is no joke, these things are definitely causing people to get sick with a whole variety of symptoms. Just search around on google and you will find a great deal of information. The following report is particularly useful:

http://sagereports.com/smart-meter-rf/

Wireless smart meters are a major health disaster in the making. In the coming months and years this will be proven and there will be hell to pay.

I strongly doubt this is

I strongly doubt this is caused by the meter, look elsewhere for the causes.

right now there are around

right now there are around 4000 people in Ontario that are sick this is a well known
there are 1000s more in the US, and around the world a lot of US State's has banned smart meters after people got sick when PG&e installed smart meters also 10 Country's has ban smart meters 1 law-suit was won in France
when cows got sick

Hydro One ripoffs

I have been fighting the Hydro A-holes for 25 years. I have written to every level of government, to every committee or group connected with Hydro and to every "overseeing" governmental body. The Auditor General, Ombudsman, MP's and MPP's couldn't care less. I share the same problems as others on this forum with a multiplier of 20, a net meter where I am being charged for the hydro that I produce with my solar panels and so on. The Ombudsman's office has been asked to look into my issue four times and the last time they said that my problem was with Hydro policy and not an administrative issue which is not only complete crap but a complete cop out. What a useless group! Richard Wakefield's (Hydro ripoff blogspot) class action suit only covers smart meters and does not touch on any other issues. My problem is with a net meter, so I did not qualify. What else can we do?

What can we do? Answer: Boycott

BOYCOTT. How do you boycott a monopoly when you live in a house that constantly needs large amounts of electricity? Turn everything off. Slowly start to go off grid. Conserve all you can. Change your life. Look on YouTube. People are actually doing this. Setting up solar panels in your backyard is EASY.

They will never change. Typically large corporations that have people by the balls will never give you a break. Look at the oil companies. Oil is $50 a barrel and yet we are still paying nearly $1.30 a liter. $1.30 is what we were paying after hurricane Katrina when oil was $150 a barrel. Crying to the government to fix this problem will do nothing. You are the one that has to change. It would be funny if everyone went back to horse and buggy. A real testament to the corrupt governments and oil companies that control them. Boycott any way you can and you will feel ALOT better. For people that are financially limited your survival now depends on it. Money for food is now going to pay a bill that has doubled or tripled for the same amount of usage. Hydro bills now resemble mortgage payments. What a joke. Good job government. Go retire to your Mexican villas paid for with taxpayers money. You must be very popular in Mexico.

Another great example of poor governance: The OPA was a "temporary" agency with 15 employees set up by the ont gov when hydro collapsed. Now it employs over 300 with 75% of them making over a 100g's a year. That's the governments response. Pathetic continued abuse of taxpayer monies. Typical corrupt government. Manufacture a crysis. When I read about the decades of corruption and abuse at Ontario hydro it made me sick to my stomach. Using their "product" now makes me sick to my stomach. I do not wish to support them anymore in any way shape or form. Candle light is very warm, beautiful and natural. Alot nicer than stroboscopic fluorescent plus it doesn't contaminate our drinking water supplies with TRITIUM. In the winter they heat your living area as well. Boycott these greedy lying thieves ASAP.

hate hydro

want out how do i do it

hydrOne

I own some residential rental units in ontario. Simple duplexes, yet clean and safe. My tenants have a 75% failure rate regarding rent payments. at one point; a duplex [ in a town of approx 4000 people ], was vacant for over 3 years, due to legal issues and tenant vandalism. While this unit was empty; the main breakers were thrown to disconnect the hydro services. That is; NO hydro was being drawn from the outside/hydroOne transformers into my duplex. I received billings with ''ACTUAL"" readings of useage [ 3>5 kwh/day/unit ], while these breakers were thrown. The units were TOTALLY boarded over [ for insurance /vandalism ]. You could not ''see'' the meters. MANY [ dozens ] of calls to hydroOne were met with any and every impracticle excuse/reason why my empty/disconnected units were having ''actual'' readings/useage...from metres that could not be seen/accessed in any manner. At one point; i was told that a hydroOne workman was on site as i was speaking w/ a hydroOne csr;...according to the hydroOne csr; the workman were indeed able to read my metre; the very one present was using binoculars, and reading my unit's metres just fine. I pointed out that the binoculars must be the x-ray type; to be able to see through 1/2 inch fir plywood. This is just one of my horror stories dealing with this tyrrant...there are too many to tell. You can't fight city hall, hydroOne, insurance brokers, or reliance energy... so; i work 3>4 jobs... so hydroOne, other monopolies, and my deadbeat tenants can flourish. I would drink if i could afford the gov't's stranglehold on the beverage industry!...and so it goes!

hydro costs

I am a retired worker who has been fortunate enough to never have had to draw unemployment insurance , welfare or received a childs allowance check from the govt. but raised 5 children nor have I got a gst check from the govt. other than those sent out with the new hst. 300.00 total. That aside I,m now retired after spending 50 years in the work force and find that living on my pension is difficult even tho I still pay more in income tax then I receive in my govt. pensions and I am pissed off that when I received my last few hydro bills they were way higher even tho. my consumption was down. After several calls I was told that a 15.00 charge (not the debt pay down) was the result of Ontario not using enough hydro since the economic down turn so the govt. is passing on a charge to us (hydro one does,nt show this charge on a separate line but incorporates it into their bill) It appears that when ontario hydro was sold the buyers where guaranteed a minimum amount of power usage and we now have a over supply condition so the govt.is paying up and this is being passed on to us and then they have the nerve to charge hst on that.This charge is at a adjustable rate each month depending on the hydro demand and is a percentage of your hydro usage. No wonder we get into these problems when most of the people in govt. try running it as a business when very few of them are business people. Govt. STAY OUT OF BUSINESS. Now I see hydro one sending out incentives for their customers to use less power . Good sales pitch !!! use less power and they get to cut their operating costs and get their pockets refilled by the govt. who passes that on to us. NOW THAT IS GOOD BUSINESS ON THE PART OF THE POWER SUPPLIERS . and we are the pawns being played by the sucker govt.

just wondering

did you vote for Harris? His Conservative govt was the one that had the firesale and got this great deal for Ontarians: we get to pay the debt and the private sector got all the profit at a great price. Write to Mike and ask for your money back.

That debt has long been paid

That debt has long been paid back...ask Dalton why Ontarians are still paying for a debt that has been paid back millions of dollars over. While your at it ask him why Ontario pays millions of dollars to "sell off" hydro reserves...yep that's right...we pay others namely the US to take surplus electricity that is produced in Ontario off our hands...while we pay through the nose for "green energy"... Do your homework before making foolish comments. Wake up Ontario it's time for a change!

hydro rip off

We are holding a province wide rally against the increasing hydro rate hikes and are tired of paying high bills. We encourage everyone to come out and protest against the hydro companies for ripping us of for the longest time. interested people please contact me at nikki.toronto@hotmail.com to join. nothing will be acheived by writing here its time to raise our concerns by stepping out of our houses.

Rally Against Increasing Hydro Rates

I am a member of an Ottawa-based consumers advocacy group ("Take Back Hydro) that is trying to raise the profile of electricity rates at an issue in the forthcoming Ontario provincial election. We want to hold a series of public information meetings to raise awareness and to suggest ways that consumers can have their voices heard, especially by the media and by candidates in the election. We would like to know who we might invite and knowledgeable speakers to these events.

Any advice?

hydro ripoff

We here in Sarnia are having a Hydro Rate protest at City Hall,,expecting over a thousand people to show up,,,our Mayor is supporting us,,,and maybe ,just maybe if other towns & citys do the same ,and all the Mayors get together and go to Queen's Park collectively,we MIGHT get some action on our part.
Bob Jardine

hydro rip off

i must say you people in sarnia are lucky because your mayor is supporting you, here in the rural area that i m in the municipality doesnt care about how people are struggling so we had to get in touch with other organizations but i personally think until we dont put our foot down on increasing hydro prices they will continue to go up. just lately in the news that mcguinty has approved 46% increase just for this year alone - 2011. single mothers, seniors, students, low income and the working poor will continue to suffer at the hands of the greedy ceos. so we need to get together and make our voices heard

I must admit that I have

I must admit that I have become a broken gear in what I once thought to believe was a great country. I was proud to say "I am Canadian". I felt pride that we were a nation (who perhaps were looked upon by our southern neighbours as as insignificant) that was in many ways untouched by greed and the desire to dominate others. Unfortunately, the dominance now comes from inside "our borders". The greed is sickening. I don't care if someone makes a billion selling snake oil on there own dime but I can't accept being held prisoner by the goverment...aren't these people supposed to help? I guess they forgot what they applied for... I don't think any of them give a shite about us. The money is good and as long as they stay hidden and unaccountable who's really going to remember that they did F all...doesn't matter what Party. We are the well that they draw from and the well is running dry at my end.

Suggestion

Don't vote Liberal in Ontario, they started this problem, they pay executives and CEO's millions and do not audit their expenses.
They pass their costly mistakes onto us the public-the customer, if any other company did this they would be out of business.
Hence Liberals out of business? The Federal government needs to deal with this and accept no excuses, this is white collar fraud at its worst or perhaps even theft.

Who does make these people accountable for our tax dollars being misused?

Hydro Ripoff

After reading all the horror stories on your blog I truly believe it is time to step up and make our voices heard. How to do this I have no idea but I am willing to assist in any way possible. I like many others contacted the ombudsmans office when Ontario Hydro 1st was de-regulated but that is another frustrating story.
Here is my recent horror story.
I have a small unwinterized summer cottage in cottage country. I had mice problems many years back so I decided to keep the power on all winter and use the ultrasonic rodent repellers to reduce the problem. These things work amazing and so since I had no massive spring cleanup I decided to keep this up. Previous experience told me that these repellers cost about 2.00 per month in kw usage so I was amazed when my recent hydro bill arrived. As you know on the back of your statement is the following: last reading - current reading - e estimated or a actual and consumption. My bill read Last 2706 - Current- 2706 a and Consumption 0. Now unless my power has been off for the 2 month billing period I question the consumption. However I was charged 59.90 for delivery of 0 kw, .54 for regulatory charges a total of 60.44.
Then came 13% HST of 7.86. Next was a 10% credit of 3.34. Now if this is new type of math I desperately need these formulae to calculate my income tax payable.
Anyone who can provide me with these amazing calculations would be a hero in my books. So my bill 64.96 for what was 4.00 of usage is a ripoff.
Now I went on to the providers website to compare if I was to have the power shut off and it turns out to be 180.00 for discontinuation and 180.00 for recontinuation in the spring, not a viable option.
My hydro at home is no bed of roses neither but that also is another story of frustration.

Cottage Bob

incorrect multipliers

For some time now all have been attacking the meters this is not the case the providers have calculations that multiply the numbers presented on the meter if your lucky it may be 1 if your old meter was not calibrated to the correct multiplier it could be as high as 60 times we have seen many clients who have been overcharged for decades some older people have had to leave there rural homes for this reason and have overpayed by 10s of thousands of dollars yet the CEOs of these providers just smile and wave! you can bet there families dont have a multiplier of 60.
Is this really Canada Eh

hydro one's-- NEW WAY OF CHEATING YOU -THE 10% STEAL !

Yes they have found another way to steel from you. They only give me 94% of the 10% Jan discount for the first 3 days of 2010. As usual they don't show the calculations for the discount nor do the show the calculations for the three delivery charges which they have always hidden. That is so they can hide their thief from you! And as I said previously their web site does not show the actual electricity you are using. Instead shows amounts including the line loss charge. How ridiculous can they get ! And did they tell you the volume meter charge rate was increased Jan 1st 2011? Why not??
Do you suppose they think everyone wont know about these things.; or are they just plaid stupid. If you call them they just say their calculation are correct and hang up on you if you persist.
You can never talk to anyone who knows anything about these charges thief's etc
There has to be an end to this stupidity and nonsense !
HOW MANY MORE THOUSANDS OR MILLIONS ARE THEY GOING TO STEAL FROM US ?

tracking meter usage

It seems like my experience is like a lot of others. Pre-smart meter usage - 32kwh/day - post-smart meter - 106 kwh/day. A few of you have mentioned monitoring the usage and recording what the meter is showing. Can someone give a few more details on how you were doing this eg. time frame you were looking at etc. As well can someone explain the usage of the TED mentioned in several messages.

Thanks

TED monitor

I've been using this now for 2 years and is truly amazing. It shows what the actual usage is per second, per minute, per hour, per day etc. You can save all your data on your computer to compare.
It is amazing! check it out at the energydetective.com and give them a call. There is an 800 #

Ontario Smart Meter readings and 10% discount swindle Jan 1 on-

'4Just paid my latest hydro one bill. they billed 104.12; I paid 103.65. as calculated on my computer.
Their web site does not show my electricity used; but an inflated price with the 9.2% line loss charge included. That's stupid and a lie.
Further the hourly reading don't add up to the total for the day - every day for the billing period Dec 3 10 to Jan 4 11is incorrect ! ; and the period/month total does not match the exact amount they billed. So it is obvious they are fiddling with the meter readings to get a ridiculous bill. The bills do not show the three (3) delivery calculations--the base rate; the delivery volume meter;and the delivery volume adjusted; nor does it show any of the calculation for the 3 day 10% credit. That is just stupid, ignorant, and CRIMINAL. It is no wonder people are fed up with these ignorant electric utility companies. They hide these charges so you can not see the facts -and their incorrect calculation.
Yes we cook on our camp stove, we do not use much electricity and have been using florescent light for ever since Ikea sold them about 15 years ago- long before anyone in any USA or Canada though of these.
Now we have only to install our own power plant (s) solar, wind mill-alternator, gas generator- and get off this thieving government grid.
This last bill was for inflated price of$35.91 worth of electricity for which I have to pay an additional $69 FOR THE Ugh!! POLLUTING CANCER CAUSING ELECTRIC POWER GRID !!! JUST TYPE EMF ON YOUR I-NET SEARCH PAGE AND YOU CAN READ FOR DAYS ABOUT THIS !!!
Those poor Inuit people do not know what the cost are for letting Ontario trespass their lands. A 300 METER WIDE RIGHT OF WAY FOR THE POWER LINES IS A MINIMUM AND ANY LIVING THING IN THAT CORRIDOR WILL SUFFER ALL THE CONSEQUENCES - BIRTH-DEATHS/ MISCARRIES / STILL-DEATHS AMONG THEIR PEOPLE; AND ALSO, CARIBOU, POLAR BEARS, SEALS, WOLF ETC.
WHY WOULD ANYONE WANT TO BUY AN ELECTRIC CAR WHEN ELECTRICITY WILL SOON COST MORE THE GAS TO FUEL A CAR, AND THE ELECTRIC MOTOR WILL GIVE THEM CANCER FROM THE MAGNETIC AND ELECTRIC RADIATION THEY WILL BE SITTING WITH EVERY DAY!

Smart Meters & Billing thereof

Outline for Ontarians to demand Smart Meter Problems are resolved:
NOTE: this is a first draft outline and it will be updated as I find out what organization
is responsible for each point below.

1.) No Readings online, fancy graphs but no readings available. . . (Problem with H-1) (Hydro One) (Ontario Ombudsman)

2.)Sine wave form & what the Smart Meter reads; Question; is it true that any for any 120 volt load we are being charged for the full sine wave of current available in other words anything plugged into 120volts costs us double for the same load running on 240 volts. I have requested a full explanation of this from the (IESO). A technician at Weights & Measurements Canada assured me on two different occasions, that yes it is TRUE. (IESO) (Ontario Ombudsman)

3.) I have asked Hydro One for the Schematic diagram for the Smart Meter that has been put on our house without our consent. Apparently we are supposed to trust it. (Is it our right to know exactly how they work?) (Ontario Ombudsman)?

4.) Billing issues
a. An old Meter Stuck w/o any history. (What is the process?) (OEB)? (Hydro One)? (Ontario Ombudsman)?
b. Billed for non existent meter. (Problem with H-1)(OEB) (Hydro One) (Ontario Ombudsman)
c. Lack of readings given to W&M Canada (Hydro one seems to control what readings are released to W&M Canada. Our technician seemed to be frustrated by this control of information from the LCD’s. (W&M Canada) (Ontario Ombudsman) (Federal Govt. political involvement)?

5.) Old Meter Slippage (mechanical meters slowed down with age some even stopped; now there is no slippage . . . every thousandths of a kWh is accounted for. Shouldn't this equate lower energy costs? (Do we as citizens have the right to this information?) (IESO)(OEB) (Hydro One) (Ontario Ombudsman)

6.) Line Loss Adjustment Factor (.092) when was this put on our bills? Was it ever credited? Since the LDC's (Local Distribution Companies), the OEB & the IESO always knew about voltage drop in the system & it was included in our costs. Now all of a sudden it is our responsibility? (Hydro One) (IESO) (OEB)

7.) Inadequate help from Hydro One if you have a problematic Smart Meter. (Hydro One) (Ontario Ombudsman)

8.) False notations were made on my account. Phone call to Hydro One “You have indicated that you did not want to be present for the inspection". This was in regard to my initial contact to Hydro One that something was not right with my meter. (Hydro One) (Ontario Ombudsman)

My Problem:
With two 750 watt baseboard (240v) heaters on, a 4500 watt insulated water heater on at 145 degrees (no water usage) a mid efficiency oil furnace on a programmable thermostat cycling between 7 degrees during the day and 12 degrees at night. At these settings our 2000 sq. ft. r 20 fully insulated home racks up 3700 kWh / month last Jan. (Weights & Measurements Canada) will do a site Visit March 10th (Hydro One) (Ontario Ombudsman)

Also our old meter was stuck when we bought the property so there is no electrical usage history for our property.

On my own high load test what should have been 1.9 kWh the meter recorded as 3.1 kWh.

HydroOne

Hasn't anyone anything adverse to say about "delivery charge?" This turns out to be approximately equal to the cost of actual hydro consumption, each month. People who are shut-ins, retired, unemployed (i.e., those who are forced to be home for whatever reason) incur additional monthly debt, as it is impossible to turn off heat, etc. (mine is electric, most unfortunately). I think there is a provincial crisis looming, to be enhanced by an additional 46 percent, particularly on the part of those who are average income earners.

Delivery Charges

My last bill for my cottage had consumption of $210 and my delivery charge is $361 - just because my cottage is not my primary residence. So we are penalized for having a cottage in Ontario. If I purchased multiple residences in Toronto my delivery charges would be the same....Makes you understand why people buy vacation properties elsewhere!

Delivery Charges to cottage/seasonal residences

I'd seriously consider the costs of just running some type of generator/wind/solar+battery packs+inverters depending on how often you're there and your exact electricity needs there, but it's a lot easier to go off-grid in this type of environment when you planned from the start with things like propane stoves and hot water.

As for cottages, I've pretty much determined in life that I'd rent one for a week or two per year rather than own, unless you have enough family to do an internal timeshare, but even that can cause difficulties.

Hydro rates are giving Ontario a step up with NAFTA

Looking at the rates home owners pay for Electric on weekends, should remain through the week days. I see this as subsidizing Industry in Ontario and under NAFTA trade agreement Ontario is in Violation of the agreement with every Home owner in Ontario paying to offset Manufacturing in Ontario costs by giving a disadvantage to Products in Ontario over others in NAFTA. I do Hope the USA never finds this out for Billions in fines to Ontario will be added to pay down the Debt or Debt reduction. Most Manufacturing in Ontario needed Power lines that the general public is paying for and Hydro not finding power being stolen by grow operations. has home owners paying for the loss. Thank You Ontario Hydro?

HydorOne falsified my daily meter reading- they did same to you

False "smart meter" readings.
It is apparent that "Hydro One" has falsified daily meter reading to the amount of between 20 to 40 kwh during the last days of Sept. and early Oct. ( I have regularly read my meter since I moved to Ontario in 2004. For 4 years they charged me farm rates and refused to correct saying everyone in my area had to pay farm rates. I have never farmed or registered as a farmer! After 4-5 years they finally relented due to my repeated calls and refusing to pay their bills. I paid what I calculated on my computer each month.) Now since being changed over to the" smart meter" system, they have apparently falsified /changed the daily meter readings/use by between 20 to 40 kilowatts over 4 days. At the end of Sept. and early Oct. The readings they show don't jive with my readings and just do not make any sense at all. You really have to see the readings to understand what I am speaking of.

Yes they did and I can prove it and so can you. Download you daily reading from the last month of your old meter and the first month of your new so called "SMART METER" (mine was Sept. And Oct. you will see up to 4 days or more where reading are not normal. mine are 30%+ over other days. The reason is obvious and can easily be proven. their reading the previous month were on the old meter -each digit =40 kwh . so when they billed me they used the reading the meter reader saw when he/she came here. Well that was the same METER READING as two days previous! (Yes I only use about 15 kwh per day !) (We can't afford the ridiculous rates and survive at 15C in the house!) Thus they were out by up to 40 kwh.- that's what they added to 3 or 4 days in the following month bill to make up for their STUPIDITY ! They could have just admitted they did not know how to read their own meter, and they could have added the kwh, at the old rate, to the next bill but instead added kwh to 4 days in the following months bill ! THIS IS JUST TOTALLY RIDICULOUS IGNORANT AND STUPID ! NOW HOW CAN ANYONE BELIEVE THEIR BILLING. We are told to look at our daily usage but that is now impossible to believe when they can manipulate the reading WHAT'S MORE THE POWER AUTHORITY DOESN'T ANSWER YOUR EMAILS NOR DOES ANYONE ELSE INVOLVED. I SENT EMAILS TO ALL THREE SO CALLED REGULATORS AND GOT ONLY IGNORANCE ! THOSE PEOPLE NEED TO BE FIRED the departments eliminated since they are useless- AND THE PREMIER AND MINISTERS NEED TO RESIGN BECAUSE THE ARE OBVIOUSLY ALL COMPLICIT IN "Hydro One"s FARCE. What else can I say - well they came here and cut down 35+ Christmas trees without reason. Law suit pending - never received promised reply from their solicitors.! Obviously know they are at fault. Two of their people came here and said I told them it was OK to cut the trees. A TOTAL LIE.! I asked them to take EMF readings and they respond by saying I asked them to send me a EMF meter. ANOTHER LIE ! They send me a copy of the USA "NIEHS/DOE" EMF RAPID report which has been shown to be a false report -apparently "bush" AND THE US ELECTRIC UTILITY COMPANIES did not want the truth to be known, and so had the results previously reported that "EMF PROBABLY CAUSES CANCER" changed.! Apparently the US ELECTRIC UTILITY COMPANIES PAID 250 MILLION TO MAKE SURE THE RESULTS WERE FAVOURABLE TO THEM. Shows corruption in the Washington USA. There are more than a dozen web sites showing that EMF from electrical power utility lines cause not just cancer but many other diseases. just look at the California report -two of the scientist were on the EMF RAPID TEAM PREVIOUSLY reported on the cancer producing effect of EMF. Also the many other reports on cattle miscarriages milk production and other problems being ignored by the Electric Utility and Governments around the world, particularly in Canada and the USA. Yes "Harper- "waiting for The USA to lead us." into hell I guess. Well that shows he not a leader! I suppose the best thing to do is make sure he is not around to lead us further down the path to hell that he so likes; and take Mcgunty and all the other ignorant fools with him.!

p.s. I am going to the Ottawa Hospital Jan 17 to have my 2nd cancer removed. The first one left a 2 foot long scare from above the back my ear to my collar bone and up to in front of my Ear or what is left of it ! Yes EMF DOES CAUSE CANCER AND I AM PROOF. 4-5 YEARS AGO THE LOCAL HOSPITAL SAID I DID NOT HAVE CANCER. WERE THEY WRONG -INCOMPETENT ETC. AND WE HERE CONSTANT MESSAGES THAT WE CAN GET LOCAL MEDICAL AID. That is just another spin by the government. we went to Cornwall last year who immediately referred us to Ottawa.- Both my wife and I. There is no local medical care except in Toronto and Ottawa you idiots in government.! You are totally out of touch with reality. Everyone here is flown by helicopter to Ottawa for any real operation /emergency. Imagine the cost of that. People I know have moved back to Montreal because you closed the hospital they had gone to in Cornwall. Well that is how you deal with people who need medical care. I was about to go to Montreal myself as the doctor I had gone to In Ottawa could not see me for 3 or 4 months for this 2nd cancer. Obviously because he is overworked and underpaid. What other ignorance else can we expect from. It is no wonder 3 out of 4 university graduates move to the US for employment. You need the money too stuff your own pockets and those of your fiends. don't bother to pay the people that really matter. You can obviously grease their palms if you need medical care with all the extra cash you are stuffing in your pockets or better still take a trip to the US and get medical care there by an ex Canadian doctor that you forced to leave for a job and better pay. Hire a few more Pakistani or Indian doctors. They may be incompetent but at less than half the price for the rest of us that fits your bill.

There is a lot more to tell but above is enough for now.

Sorry

Hi,

I'm sorry to hear your story but I am not surprised by it.

Unfortunately anything the Qc government touches becomes filled with incompetence. I do not actually think that Hydro is knowingly falsifying counters but I know for a fact that they do make errors quite often, and that it is VERY difficult to rectify them -- even when you present them with hard facts. They are a monopoly and as with any monopoly they couldn't care less about customers.

As bad as they are Hydro is actually the best run government agency. The rest is a shame. The most recent Qc highways were built in the 1960s and are now so poorly maintained that the whole world knows about it. Yet last year I paid 47% income tax, plus of course the 13% in sales tax. What am I getting for my money? An incompetent and bloated civil service that does not even take care of its citizens basic needs (health care, education, transportation).

the real smart meter rip off

I had the smart meter installed about two years back and never really bothered to check my consumption or so called savings. Also with all the advertising for TOU rates, we changed to laundry after 10 and weekends. Personally, I am extremely conscientious about leaving lights on, and always go out of my way to turn off unused lights and devices. Imagine my surprise when looking over my bill, I noted the consumption was exactly the same as the previous year, yet at the end of last year, starting September, we got a new fridge, December, new furnace and tankless heater, early spring, before the warm weather, new A/C, and then when my mother-in-law came to stay with us from July 11 and left Sept 5th, the washing machine broke down 3 days in. Got a brand new DC drive unit and during the very hot weather, she was cold even at 26C, we did not use the A/C at all.
My consumption? Exactly the same as the previous year.
What recourse do I have? I need to get to the bottom of this.

Lawsuit

Has anyone done anything about starting a class action lawsuit against hydro one yet or is it all just lip service at this point?

ACTION NEEDED

Why on earth are they getting away with these charges? Money Mart didn't
We need a class action against hydro and the Ontario government for taxing it.
I opened my bill and I'm now living beyond my means. Well done idiots. I called hydro and asked where in the province can I live to not be hit so hard. He said it's the same everywhere, then said wait, TORONTO. Toronto isn't on time of use, the rest of the province is. This is so wrong on so many levels.

Hydro Rates

We have a cottage and my last bill was for $710...we are hardly there! Our consumption was $210, delivery $361 and the rest taxes, debt reduction, etc. We pay such a high rate for delivery, not because it costs more to deliver to our cottage, but because our cottage is not our primary residence. Most people on our road pay less are the cottage is there primary residence. Not fair! So yes, people of Ontario should band together and put a stop to this robbery. I am wondering if there is a Facebook page set up yet...will do more searching on this.

The same but different

My neighbor and I have very similar houses. Not very big homes around 1000sq/f and solid brick. Since the smart-meters were installed (which were at the same time) I have managed to consume around 2.2x what he has. Where my meter reads 23000 his reads 9300 consumed. This makes no scene. Neither of us do any thing drastically different and we keep our homes at roughly the same temp.

I hope that these issues are going to be cleared up soon. Or at least monitored properly.

One Set Price for Electricity Usage

Smart Meter Comments aside (which I completely agree with and have presented my own challenge to Toronto Hydro regarding my current bill). The system as it stands right now is not looking out for the consumer and its sole purpose is to make a profit. If I remember correctly at one point in time the entire Hydro system was a publicly control service that provided electricity to the consumers of Ontario. Though poorly run hence the massive debt that all of Ontario has been legislated to pay back the system was still publicly run and far cheaper than the current system in place. Also if I remember correctly we as Ontarians have paid dearly for the current system that is currently in place and not the companies that are making the profits right now. I believe that if given the choice all Ontarians would choose to revert back to the old system and pay a fare rate for electricity versus the current for profit system that obviously is not working. As to keep record for the stats that are out there. My current bill is $30 more on the time of use plan than last year though my consumption is 142 KWH less over a shorter period.

u asked for it

I can only wonder of how many of the people in this forum, who are demanding a public linching of Mcguinty, actually voted for him not once but twice. For those people I say u got whats coming to ya. For the rest I have pitty and suggest the following, we set a date and time for a provincial metre smashing party if 10,000 people agree to take a sludge hammer to their metres at the same date and time maybe the govnment will take notice. Nuts to class action law suits they take to long, Direct energy forget it. The person that posted that blog must be a salesman for them. Im also happy to say my metre is fine, but im looking into this for my sister whos metre isnt. With furnace, hot water and dryer all on gas her bills are between 400-600 a month. I dont even feel she has enough fixtures to consume that much hydro.

amen to that! I'm being told

amen to that! I'm being told I'm burning 64kWh/ day avg, I've checked my meter every night at around 11:30pm and it shows 33kWh, this has been going on for the past three billing cycles, after I told them they wouldn't see a cent until it's resolved they offered to have a tech come out and have a look at the meter, so far I owe them $1600, and climbing ha ha ha!

Smart meters

I am so glad to have found this site. We have been fighting with Hydro for two years since our smart meter was installed. Our usage went up 65% in the first billing period which before heating season. At Hydro's suggestion, we began taking twice daily meter readings and found unexplained spikes in usage and no increases when we were aware of increased use. After 10 months we asked Hydro to review our data. They refused. We filed a complaint with the Ombudsman. Hydro told the Ombudsman's office that they couldn't explain the variations in use. They told us that they weren't looking at our data, that they's checked our meter and it was correct...funny that our usage dropped by half after they checked it. It has started acting up again, though, and we are starting to see the spikes again...all, without heat or a/c, judicious use of BBQ for cooking, clothesline for drying, etc.

Hydro in Ottawa

I don't understand this, in the USA you can get the electric company to come in and check your electrical if there is a decrepancy...In ON. nobody is responsible, I don't get it...

HYDRO ONE SMART METERS - TIME TO TAKE ACTION

CONTACT YOUR PREMIER - DALTON MCGUINTY

PHONE - 416-325-1941

EMAIL - www.premier.gov.on.ca - click on Contact

FAX - ATTENTION: DALTON MCGUINTY AT 416-325-3745

WRITE - DALTON MCGUINTY, PREMIER
LEGISLATIVE BUILDING
QUEEN'S PARK, TORONTO, ON
M7A 1A1

We can not afford Mr. McGuinty as our Premier. It is time to take move forward with a class action lawsuit with regards to the government's inability to address the inaccurancies concerning the "Smart Meters." No one is listening to our concerns. No one is paying attention. Not the hydro companies and not the government. If we do not stand together we will continue to be abused and cheated.

Like so many other Hydro One customers our usage has increased dramatically since the installation of the smart meter. There have been no changes in our household to justify the increase. We have perused three years of hydro bills and have come to the conclusion that after the smart meter was installed our daily usage doubles and in some instances tripled in the same months year over year.

Let your voice be heard by contacting the Premier's Office, Hydro One, and the Minster of Energy.

Thanks for this Information.

Thanks for this Information.

Smart Meters

I am tired of trying to do laundry after 9pm and before 7am in order to avoid the high electricity costs!! Highway robbery!!

Weekends man, weekends! Don't

Weekends man, weekends! Don't you know that it's all part of Dalton's assault on your weekend? They raised beer prices too (oh so quietly...).

smart meter

I finally finished my home with all high efficency appliances, compact bulbs through out and im very frugal with lights and consumption I got my bi monthly down to approx $268 per month and was happy with that. My new smart meter was installed without my knowledge and i get charged for it on my bill and to me why am i paying for something i didnt want or ask for and isnt that tresspassing. Anyway my bills since the smart meter have doubled but my use of the energy hasent changed if anything it dropped because i shut off the A/C and hadnt turned on the heat yet but yet it went way up how is that possible. I think its a new money grab and when i call to question i get ignorance and that the readings are correct. What can we do about this go to the competetion? No because there is none so all we can seem to do is take it.

Smart Meters

In my opinion the increased hydro cost is another cash grab and the way for the Ontario Liberals to pay for full day kindergarten... ie daycare.

Bug in Smart Meter software

Several people have made comments about how not only the price, but their actual electricity usage has mysteriously gone up since the smart meter was installed. Something is wrong. People that I'm in contact with have told me that there is a bug in the software that handles the smart meter data. Comments on this post aren't going to fix the problem. We need to somehow take action against hydro. What are we supposed to do? This is bad business, and somebody has to put a stop to it.

smart meter

how do i know what kind of meter is installed on my property.what is the difference.

Simple, if it is "smart

Simple, if it is "smart meter" (really a stupid meter without the normal 5 circular dials ) it will show a row of zero's but as you keep watching it will show a few numbers for a few seconds. such as 123 or simular. Then you have to know what those number mean. Guess what -Ask hydro one if you don't know. (Each number starting with 1 is equal to 40 kwh ON MY METER !!!. Yes that why they are stupid or designed so that you can't really read them unless you sit there until the number goes up like 1 to 2 or 15 to 16 ! So each increase is = to 40kwh ! SINCE I ONLY USE ABOUT 15KWH PER DAY IT'S ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO BE THERE EXACTLY WHEN THE NUMBER GOES UP MAKING IT IMPOSSIBLE TO READ WITH ANY ACCURACY ) SO YOU CAN GO TO hydro one's WEB SITE; BUT, SINCE THEY DON'T SHOW THE KWH YOU ARE USING BUT SCREWED UP AMOUNTS BY ADDING THE LINE LOSS FACTOR and god (if you have one ) only knows what else, YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO FIGURE WHAT YOU ACTUALLY USED.
THAT'S THEIR SECRET WEAPON -CONFUSE AND CONQUER- DON'T GIVE THE CUSTOMER ANY REAL INFORMATION TO DO ANYTHING WITH.

smart meters

Thanks to our new smart meter we got a Hydro bill of approximately $1,500 for the summer months. We are two people living in a small two bedroom house with one fridge, one T.V. and one water tank (set at it's lowest level). We used no heat or AC, just a small fan and we BBQ all our meals even breakfeast. Although we are not so badly off as the poor lady and her elderly mother who had to sell their home at a loss, we did have to borrow most of the money to pay the bill. The cost of Hydro has increased so dramatically that the monies we had budgeted just didn't cut it. So how do we pay this money back? What will happen to us all, especially those on a fixed income, this coming winter when we have no choice but to heat our homes? I have worked hard all my life, paid my bills and my taxes proud to be a Canadian. Now I'm just scared.

smartmeters

my regular usage has been arround 800to 1100 with my bill at 125 dollars they put in a smart meter and my bill jumped to 4500 at435.00 dollars with no change in usage habitts WHY ???? also i have an apt. with ZERO usage and was charged 19.85 for delivery of 0 whats going on with utillities gouging for mcguinty ????????/

"Smart Metres"

My 88 year old mother and I have been homeless since last January, and staying with relatives. We had a house in the Kawartha Lakes, less than 20 years old when we bought it. For the first six months we lived there, our hydro bills were around $70/mo. We had a brand new Energy Star washer and dryer, most light bulbs were switched to CFL's, and we had Geo Thermal heating and cooling. A "Smart Meter" was installed, and the next 2 bills I received were almost $400 each, and then I received a bill for $800. This came in June when we weren't using any heating or cooling.

When I contacted hydro, the woman I spoke to hung up on me when I asked for an explanation of the charges. She just kept telling me that everything I needed to know was printed on my bill. I pursued the issue for months and was given some truly outrageous explanations , such as, everyone who uses Geo Thermal heating and cooling pays at least $1,000/mo. for hydro, even when the system is brand new. Well, we spent over $1,000 having the Geo Thermal system checked and re-charged so that it was running at optimum efficiency and there was no change in the hydro bills. And again, the charges were still out of this world when the system wasn't even in use.

My mother and I are both on fixed incomes and simply couldn't afford to keep up with the hydro bills, so we had no choice but to sell the house at a huge loss, so we've been completely wiped out financially, and we still owe money to hydro.

At the time we bought the house and I set up the new account with hydro, I asked what the previous owners had paid for hydro, on average. I was told that it was a "Privacy Issue" and they couldn't disclose that information. Yet, when the problem with the "Smart Meter" came up, I was told that they were also basing part of our charges on the previous owner's usage! I was also told over and over again that hydro's equipment never fails and is never wrong, although they did switch out the "Smart Meter" for a differnt brand, and months later told me that indeed there had been an issue with the original one - it hadn't been set to zero when it was installed, so we had been charged for KwH that were already recorded from wherever it had been previously.

Since the passing of the Green Energy Act, when we were selling the house I had to be able to give any prospective buyer an estimate of our monthly hydro cost. I was finally told by someone in Hydro's head office in Toronto to give the figure of $375/mo., which we did. Very very nice couple bought the house, but I heard just last week that the issue is still on-going with them, they received a bill for $3,800 + for ONE MONTH, and they're now in the process of switching the house over to completely solar power. Fortunately they're in a financial position to be able to do that. I certainly would have liked to also.

As for old style meters slowing down and gumming up, exactly how old is old? My parents lived in the same house in Toronto for 45 years and it still had the original meter when that house was sold in 2000., and there was never a question that it wasn't accurate.

I was also told, in the same conversation in which the hydro rep said that their equipment NEVER, EVER FAILS, umm, but if it did, it would read lower than it should WOW! How stupid are we to accept nonsense like this from them. There needs to be a class action suit brought against Ontario Hydro by the people of Ontario, and I want to be first on the list!!!!

Smart meter

It's not the hydro cost it's the bloody delivery charges the tier loss charges the hst in Ontario.This province owned utility company and government is a big farce.

THIS IS AWFUL - $715.00. I

THIS IS AWFUL - $715.00. I NEVER PAID THIS MUCH. SMART METERS SHOULD BE TAKEN AWAY.

Was there a difference in

Was there a difference in total usage, or was usage concentrated in the peak times? Oddly enough, it wasn't a particularly hot summer (depending on where you are I guess). Though with "smart meters", the biggest hits will be in the summer months, since usage is very concentrated in the peak hours (usually).

Scams

The Ontario Hydro does not want to fix the meters they are making money and if they fix the meters they can't run the scam. I have Proof of this in my bill this month and other months and other people do to if you only look( Estimated July 28,2009 to August 27,2009 this is 30 Days averaging 27 KWH per day this year estimated July 29,2010 to August 27,2010 this is 29 Days averaging 77 KWH) and I have Used Less power then Last year

Uhhhhh, these are estimated

Uhhhhh, these are estimated readings. Won't the actual readings correct any over-estimates?

We averaged 48 kWh per day in

We averaged 48 kWh per day in March, April, May and June. In July according to our genius smart meter we averaged 89 kWh per day and August it went up to 97 kWh per day. Last year August was 64 kWh per day. Our usage has not changed, and the AC would need to run 20 hours a day for the whole month to make that increase. Something is not right, had them out, the guy tested the meter and said if anything it is reading a little slow! I don't buy it, I just need to figure out what is wrong and how to prove it.

Best test would be to turn

Best test would be to turn off almost the whole house via the breakers, and then plug in only known loads into separate circuits, like space heaters, irons, dryer, etc. Turn them on and see if measured usage equals expected usage, and you can then calculate measurement error.

Smart meter group has started on facebook

Log onto facebook and search hydro smart meter

The hydro here (mine is

The hydro here (mine is inside the house) called to book a reading and stuck a smart metre on my house - just got informed the cost is 1,500 now to move my hydro outside by a co-worker...I have no choice on this smart metre being there or them changing over my hydro service from inside to outside...

I suggest Horixon Smart

I suggest Horixon Smart Meters may transend the privacy laws in Ontario and Canada. Who is the biggest share owner of Horizon Utilities...domestic, foreign, democratic, other,

I believe Horizon Utilities

I believe Horizon Utilities is owned by the City of Hamilton and City of St. Catharines.

correct smart meter, incorrect data processing

I'm a Veridian Customer and my smart meter was installed July 6. According to the latest bill I consumed 860 kWh from July 6-29. As of today August 20 the meter itself shows a total of 642 kWh used which is much more in line with my usual ~450 kWh per month.
Sounds like the meter is correct and the error lies with the reading or data processing.
I am waiting to hear back from customer service.

My advice: check your meters! and compare them to your bill.

This is turning into a communist country?

This country is truly communistic ! These pricks in the government want to know everything about you (as if they dont knoow already) even when you consume electricty? This is DEFINITELY a cash grab once again and us "passive" Canadians will bitch and complain today but will pay the bill the next day. There are over 900,000 thusand government jobs in the province of Ontario all with a government pay check atached to the. From Doctors to the guy tha cuts the parks grass to the garbage man etc.....If anyone wants a secure job then run for an elected postion. You just have to do two terms and you retire with one of the largest pensions in the country.And on top of tat if someone bad mouths you, you can sue tha pants off the country. Thanks for reading Brian Mulroney

smart meter accuracy

I just got my hydro bill for July 2010, and my average electricity used per day had increased 4 times compare to before, over a total period of 2 years. How can this be, 4 times more on a daily basis..? I suspect this has to do with the new smart meter they installed, I think they changed mine in June (i didn't received any notification from Hydro one about the meter change). I called Hydro one and asked them to test my meter, but they refused and told me the meter can't be wrong, and if it's wrong, it will only record a lower usage. What kind of logic is this, how can the meter only measure a lower usage if it's wrong, what a bullshit statement. Can anyone tell me how to force hydro one to test my meter?

Tell them to check it out or

Tell them to check it out or remove it!! don,t pussy foot around with them if enough people get mad someone will have to listen. its going to come to a point when everyone will go back to old ways and tell hydro to stick it or solar and own your own system

mcguinty's numerous tax grabs

god i really hate all the damn tax gabs i see, from mcguinty, now the HST for god sake, does anyone make 20 - 30 percent ore every yer to accomidate these?
fo f_ck sake.

Tax grabs

I agree. Nope, my wages have been the same for last 9 years.
Govt is out to screw us all. Time we get them back!

1st bill post smart meter

I wrote today to challenge my recent Hydro One bill. May 6th 2010 a 'smart meter' was installed on my property. I was paying a recent bill, covering two months service $1,207.09 when I decided to call Hydro One to see if there were any further charges due...to my SHOCK I was told my balance due was $5991,99!!!!!! When I called customer service I was informed that some past bills had been estimated and now this bill was a 'catch up bill?" We ar not running our pool or hot tub or pond. I had credit to my account in December and again in March so I find this impossible!!!!!!!!!!!!! We have two adults living in our home. The normal bills are high enough $400 to $600 because we run a kennel.I do not believe this current bill to be correct. I believe the error must have happened when the numbers were manually put into the new meter May 6th.
Linda Young

you are probably right. If

you are probably right. If the meter is programmed wrong (wrong numbers put into database) this will affect the pusle rate of your meter, making it runn to fast.

To see if that's the problem, you can either get a home energy monitor and compare those readins every day to the smart meter readings, or you can go back over your bills, find the average use per day before the smart meter was put in and compare that to the average use per day according to the new meter.

If you use the second method, you can only average months from one actual read to another, and you should use the same months of the year when comparing the meters.

If the difference seems to be a consistent ratio, the meter was probably programmed wrong.

Good luck!

All you guys complaining

All you guys complaining about Smart Meter pricing should look into getting a contract with an Energy Retailer such as Direct Energy.

If you get into a 3 year contract with Direct Energy for example, they fix your rate at 6.99cents/kWh, which is 2 cents cheaper on average with what you'll being paying with the Smart Meter during On-Peak and Mid-Peak hours (which is really the only times you will actually be using electricity, Off-Peak hours are sleeping hours in case anyone hasn't noticed).

I was on direct energy and my

I was on direct energy and my bill doubled in price they are crooks in my book they fit right along with mcguinty

it is not about the pricing

it is not about the pricing on this thread. It is about the validity of the reading.
I currently have a reading of higher usage than the last ten year avg daily , or for the month. any way i compare it. I cannot find a stated accuracy of the smart meters vs the accuracy of the electromechanical style. I would be willing to pay the costs of electricity to run a test to have the old style fed along a new style and compare the usage readings.

YOU will pay in the long

YOU will pay in the long run. Iwas told after your 3 years r up your avg will go up with the hydro so watch energy retailer. and direct energy sucks thay do not help. thats all have a good day

Smart Meters - no reason to contract with electricity retailer

A Smart Meter should not cause one to enter into a contract with an electricity retailer. When you do that you'll also have to separately pay the "Provincial Benefit", which will add anywhere from 2.5 to 3.5 cents / kWh to your bill. In the DE example, the total price paid would be 9.5 - 10.5 cents/kWh. Customers on the Regulated Price Plan also pay the Provincial Benefit; it's just embedded in the 6.5/7.5 cent/kWh rates.

Energy retailer

Hi
My concern is not what I pay for electricity it is what I pay for delivery !
With a retailer you still pay the high delivery costs.
For example : my water pump costs me $ 4.- a month on electricity, but the delivery cost for that is a sky high $ 49.-. Not much use to have a retailer !

Smart Meters... Just another money grab...

In Rural Ontario My Hydro bill was consistent about 700 KWH on the summer 900 KWH in the winter... They installed the smart meter and all of a sudden I have bills for 1300KWH in the summer and 1500KWH in the winter...

I changed out the washer and dryer for high efficiency models. all the bulbs to CFL's.. Got rid of the 2nd freezer and refridgerator in the basement... My usage has gone up...

The real joke.. Out here in BC the bill for the same amount of the electricity is less then half of what Hydro One is charging.. Who are the crooks?

re:hydro meters are phoney

This past year i visited texas for five months and before we left home i turned off power to my hot water tank,turned off all household appliances t.v., computors, coffee pot heaters,turned off overhead fans,turned down heat to 55degrees electric heat, instant water heaters, shut off cube makers in fridge, all were either uplugged or shut off at the breakers. when we arrived home a survey arrived by mail from hydro showing me a comparison of what my hydro bill would be if we used it in the off hours verses the high consumption period and low and behold for that five month period i was in the negative of $1.50 as i used to much power during the high consumption period. can you figure this one out as no one was even home for that period. Our bill since the meter was installed went from under $200.00 a month to $336.00 per month. In texas they installed smart meters and they are getting the same crap hugh increases and the answer is the same the old measure did not measure the true consumption sound familiar. If you are starting a lawsuit i will be happy to join and stop this crooked billing system. Donald J Couchie

Smart Meter Problems to Facebook!

Tell your stories here too!

Below is my previously posted problem . . .

Yes i have same problem, no history, yet it seem that the rate at which the smart meter reads can be changed, yes it is my contention that these meters can send and receive information & settings. i have done tests:
1.) 115 kwh in 23 hrs
2.) 2400 kwh in 36 days with no one home . . . house at 9 degrees
3.) Last visit 18 kwh in 24 hrs
4.)18700 watt load for 6 min = 3kwh logged ,should have been 1.87kwh

i agree lawsuit or at the very least who controls the interface with these meters we are supposed to blindly trust, which by the way i do not. i want to see the full schematic of this thing.

one idea is an aluminum rain cover (to protect you prized meter) aluminum blocks RF signal!

call Weights & Measurements Canada at 1~877~325~3996 to start the complaint process, they say that it takes 4~6 weeks And your meter is shipped to them & you can be present for the actual testing. but again i think the rate at which they read can be changed remotely . . .

talk to me!

Meter replacement.

How do I get this smart meter removed from my house? I was afraid of a huge increase in heating for next winter, as we have forced air electric heat. We are rural, and have no access to gas. Now I am reading about inaccurate meters which benefit the greedy power companies! We just moved in last fall, the meter was installed a couple of months ago, and have no way to compare past consumption. Do we have a choice in whether or not we use these things?

Get a TED. The Energy

Get a TED. The Energy Detective.

I bought one to monitor my electrical use and the possible costs of my bills.

http://www.theenergydetective.com

Because of the instant feedback from this unit, our family has shaved our usage from 59KW per day down to 38Kw per day. And there's more to be done to shave it down some more.

Also, this unit can give you the info you need to fight hydro companies if you monitor the TED meter readings against the meter's actual usage.

Price: $239.95 US.

I've saved enough over the the last year on hydro that the unit has paid for itself. And will continue to help me reduce my consumption of hydro and the cost of the bills I'm paying.

Just a thought.

Testing Hydro/Power Meter Accurary

Hi,

I don't think you have a choice, nor can you get them removed from your house.

As for heating, consider propane (call local suppliers). It shouldn't be as hard to convert since you already have duct-work for it. Also consider a wood-burning stove, but beware of the fire risk (and insurance) implications.

In order to verify consumption, I guess the best thing to do is turn off everything in your house at the breaker, except for circuits that you know the energy consumption of, and then check what the meter is measuring real-time consumption at. A Kill-a-Watt from your local library could be of assistance for measuring power consumption.

pass this link along we need take action on this.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dark-Era-of-the-Smart-Meter/115605681812784?ref=ts

Smart Meter Horror Stories

You are all asking what can be done. We need to get together, maybe even launch a class action suit against HydroOne. They know about the smart meter problems, and they do not know the cause of the errors. They have been inundated with calls about high bills, so they know that the meters are reading too high (as they are in California and Texas where there are lawsuits pending). Since Hydro One is not dealing with the problem, not coming clean publicly with the issue, means they are taking money from you they should not. THIS IS THEFT!!

Please post your horror stories at my blog on this issue, just started it.

http://h1ripoff.blogspot.com

I'll be posting more in the coming days.

I have contacted a reporter at the A-Channel who is investigating this and also in email contact with Connie Woodcock at the Toronto Sun who has done a recent article on this and planning another. (I sent her the comments here).

Richard

rip-off

I am in the exact same boat, hydro one bills have doubled and tripled since new smart meter installed (which replaced 5 year old meter) and told by hydro one old meter must have been defected. What can we do ?

Smart Meter

I and my neighbours in a townhouse row have experienced an increase in power comsuption this pass winter. I have been disputing the monthly charges for hydro since this smart meter was installed in the fall of 2009. By the way my smart meter is located 26 feet from a transformer. Basicly my concerns fell on deaf ears. I demanded that this smart meter be "tested" and was told nothing wrong with the smart meter. ha ha. Some of my neighbours hydro has been shut off because their bills are out of wack. Finally I get to talk to someone at the local utility and was told that the i would have to put up 50 dollars to have the meter tested. Do I get my money back if this meter is measuring wrong? We have just experienced the warmest winter this past winter on record however power usage is up. As well I was told that the local utility is not measuring smart meter rates and times. I think the local utility installed these smart meters so that they would not have to send someone around to read the meter.
What about all the elderly people whom do not consume much hydro power but just pay the bill?
Which brand of Smart meters appear to be the faulty ones.
I noticed two different brands in my complex.

Digital Meter at Cottage

Have a cottage north of North Bay -- high efficiency furnace, NEW, insulated. Had a regular meter until Nov 2009. Was tracking at about 38 kwh per day prior -- new meter installed and lo and behold the useage jumps to 350 kwh per day. This cant be right.

Spoke to Hydro One several times and got the firm committment that "meters cant be wrong" . They are no longer a public utility so they have have no need to provide any customer service?

Next call to Measurement Canada -- lets see what happens

smart meters at cotages

My cottage hydro bill went through the roof. It went from approx 400$ to over 800$. When I called hydro the said oh no that couldn't be right and came up with excuses.

http://www.facebook.com/group

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=120502931307755&v=info&ref=ts#!

multiplier

we have a central meter system which has been converted over to smart meter but our multiplier is x20 everyone else i know is x 10. what is up with that. It was x 20 before they changed it as well. Can anyone help with this question. I live in the country and have power going to two separate buildings.

X 40

We live in the country and have two seperate buildings too and our multiplier is x40 it was with the old dial meter and now with the new smart meter.
Hydro One keeps giving us the run around , a few years ago they said its because we are farm phase , so I got that changed since we do not have a farm and when my x40 multiplier never changed I called again then they said it was the type of meter we had and that if I wanted a new one it would come outa my pocket , so I waited for the smart meter and finally got one on march 16 of this year and guess what it wasn't the meter ...the smart meter has x1 multiplier right on it. When I called back they were giving me this b.s spewl about it being us that use alot of hydro. Funniest thing is we moved to this place 8 years ago from 1 1/4 miles up the road our bill was 1/2 as to what it is now. I wanna know who to call to investigate this .

I am currently fighting with

I am currently fighting with Hydro for the exact same thing. made some headway. If you want I can e-mail you details, or you can watch the Hydro One rip off blog since I'll send my info to Richard to post.

Fight it. If they insist on keeping the multiplier, tell them you want to see the ratio/CT factor they programmed you meter with. The 40 multiplier has to have an offset value, something to slow down the pulse rate of your meter.

multiplier

I am also fighting with hydro one about this multiplier problem. When I first moved to this house, I noticed the times 20 on my bill. I phoned hydro one and asked them what this was about and they stated that it was an old meter and had to rotate twice to get the correct kilowatts used. They also told me that once the new smart meter was installed it would then be times 1. Well the new smart meter has been installed and I'm still paying times 20. I phoned Hydro One and asked them why I was still being charged times 20 when it stated on the smart meter (multiply X 1}. I was told that they had 5 different companies supplying them with the new smart meters and they were manufactured incorrectly. Have you heard such nonsense. My bills have doubled sometimes tripled from my old house. I have unplugged the freezer, down to one fridge, wash clothes in cold water etc. and my bills are still over 400 dollars a month. I checked the meter useage online and one day I used the most kilowatts when nobody was home and everything shut off.

Cap on Hydro

I'm so confused about this Smart Meter. I use miminal electricity, and have the new bulbs as well. My bill is very low monthly. I am also on a Cap with Universal. I'm on a contract and was told my rates would not go up. How does this affect my rates?

SMART METER MEASURING x3 - x4 ACTUAL LOAD (FRAUD?)

Purpose of this writing is
1. to inform people about what is going on
2. to get feedback about dispute procedure.

Without my knowledge they come and installed a smart meter and then left a pamphlet about benefits to home. Anyways since then my consumption skyrocketed. After waiting 4 months, I started testing closely since no improvement whatever i do. I called hydro company in Markham and they told me meter cant measure wrong. I ve told my test of course they did not care here is my test
The test :::
I unplugged everything out of the outlets , i shut off heating (gas - but electric fan right ), i shut off completely fridge and so on. Then meter outside displays 0.58 (580 Wh) Then I switched 3x40w lamp . (120wh) meter then started display (1.1-1.2) so almost 520wh for 120wh load.
4 times the actual value.
Then I have repeated test multiple times , when i turned of .058 when i turned on 1.1-1.2 ( all numbers approximate) The bottomline is meter is not measuring the load correctly. Then i replaced the 3 bulb with 11W (33Wh total ) CFL . Then I switched on and off meter showed 120 wh difference with on and off this three bulb. Not bad ha! consistent dumb meter is very consistent in making errors multiply by 4. Read a number and multiply by 4.
Unless i m terribly wrong in my calculations , these meters are CRAP!

So I send mail to measurement canada and i got a response -not read mail deleted without being read message from automation of mail server- .

So what do i do now ? Any idea how to make this progress faster . As far as i can see hydro company since getting benefit of these readings does not cooperate to change the meter. Mesaurement canada deletes my mail without reading. Where do i go now ?

Please let me know in this case what can i do to get my meter changed ? and get my money back.

NOTE 1 : Please READ >> Note to everybody ; one more thing you can do which i did not do it yet .You can measure the current without penetrating the cables , from exit of the meter the round plastic pipe (make sure it is plastic otherwise you can NOT measure it correctly because magnetic field will be blocked somewhat. There are devices like a circle clamp if you put around it will detect the current due to magnetic filed running on the main entry cable to the house. So basically the proof is very easy if that meter shows 4.0 KW , you need to see these deivce to show 4000/120 = 33 Amp.

STATISTICAL DATA REQUEST: A question to all of the people here , how many of you meter installed and had problem proved/suspected to be meter problem and it was also you just moved in to this house. I moved twice to a new house following that right away they installed the smart meter. is this also coincidence since i dont have any history in that house and i can never compare the previous months. Please contact me if you had the same replacement and hike just after you got a move to a new house.

Regards,

http://www.facebook.com/group

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=120502931307755&v=info&ref=ts#!

x2 & X3 meter readings . . . 2400 kwh/mo. in an mt house

Yes i have same problem, no history, yet it seem that the rate at which the smart meter reads can be changed, yes it is my contention that these meters can send and receive information & settings. i have done tests:
1.) 115 kwh in 23 hrs
2.) 2400 kwh in 36 days with no one home . . . house at 9 degrees
3.) Last visit 18 kwh in 24 hrs
4.)18700 watt load for 6 min = 3kwh logged ,should have been 1.87kwh

i agree lawsuit or at the very least who controls the interface with these meters we are supposed to blindly trust, which by the way i do not. i want to see the full schematic of this thing.

one idea is an aluminum rain cover (to protect you prized meter) aluminum blocks RF signal!

call Weights & Measurements Canada at 1~877~325~3996 to start the complaint process, they say that it takes 4~6 weeks And your meter is shipped to them & you can be present for the actual testing. but again i think the rate at which they read can be changed remotely . . .

talk to me!

CALL Measurements Canada

CALL Measurements Canada Toll-free: 1-877-325-3996. Get them to test the unit BEFORE Markham power comes in to replace it. If your electricity usage suddenly skyrockets 4x, expect a knock on the door from the police in the near future!

Help

We have had a cottage for 9 years and our usage runs around 1700 per year. A smart metre was installed in Sept 09. We are on equal billing and they have estimated from Sept 09 to Jan 10 3750kw. I read the metre when I was there this weekend and it shows 7019kw. No one lives there and other than 2 weeks at xmas it was been empty and the heat turned down to 15. How is this possible? HELP!

Smart Meter

I would make sure the all your breakers or fuses are off or taken out for your outside plugs. This way you know that your neighbour isn't using your hydro. I would then ask hydro to investigate their meter and install a new one. There is no reason it should be that high. If they check your bills from previous years they will know that something is very wrong. Make sure when you call that you ask for their help. People are always more inclined to want to resolve the problem if you ask for their help.

Heh - you have NO IDEA how much i hate hydro!

my house is 23 x 42.

never mind hot water, i don't even have running water.

all my bulbs are CFL.

i have no water bed, no AC

i heat with wood, the only exception is a small space heater (900W) in the bedroom because with a preschooler and an expensive bird, i have to have at least one room consistently warm in the house.

i have a small TV in the bedroom, a larger one (32") in the livingroom.

i have a PC that gets used MAYBE an hour a day, if so much.

i have no laundry machines.

i have no oven and the two big burners on my stove don't work. the majority of my cooking is done in a 900W microwave or with a 1500W kettle that shuts itself off automatically.

..... so how is it i canNOT, for the life of me, get my hydro bill below $150 a month!??

Dude...your 900W space

Dude...your 900W space heater.

wattage X hours / 1000 = kW daily.

900W x 24 hours / 1000 = 21 kWh/daily

21 kW x 30 days = 648

648 x .12 per kW (average electric price of TOTAL bill) = $77.76

There is half your $150.

You retarded?

WTF? You even read his/her info... why are you assuming the space heater is on 24 hrs a day? It would overheat and burn! I have not yet heard of anyone using a space heater 24 hours a day for 30 days non-stop... your assumption makes me think you work for the crooks!

My first bill came today

My first bill came today with the smart meter took effective. I will almost pay $40 more for this bill comparing with the last one. Too smart for taking money from my pocket.

Smart metre....... my a$s!!!!

I too, had a very low hydro bill. Never paid more than 87.00/month, and that is with a space heater in the winter and A/C in the summer in the finished loft. An A/C downstairs. My house is only 25x31, not very big. The smart metre goes in and my bill almost doubles. Oh oh oh! Yes, of course, the HST, the extra tax somehow had boosted my bill to 217.00 this month......... NEVER had I had a bill that high. Something seriously wrong with our government and energy companies. Certainly can't enjoy this country or even be proud of it, I am toooo busy working overtime to pay for the luxuries of this government!

Smart meters may be smarter than legacy meters

It is very possible that your old meter was running slow, and therefore you're paying the right amount now. Just a possibility! Having said that, $217 for a month seems like a lot for a small residence.

Most people will pay more

Most people will pay more than before. who will get the money?

The Real Price for Smart Meters

The above, while more or less true, is (literally) not the half of it. Only the price of the actual electricity is mentioned. Don't forget that you also have to pay for delivery charges, debt retirement charges etc., bringing the total cost for a kilowatt of high-peak electricity to $0.1381, not $0.092.
You can find a full discussion on the potential impact of Smart Meters at Cornwall Free News

Delivery Charge, Debt Retirement Charge

Yes, but delivery charges, debt retirement charges, etc. don't vary with time of day, hence their irrelevancy to this discussion. But perhaps, to some degree, their rates should vary according to time of day after all.

A transmission grid is built to handle a peak capacity, and there's some amount of slack that is basically standing idle most of the time waiting for that peak time. Perhaps those that use power during peak times should pay a premium for transmission?

Similarly, a grid is more likely to fail during times of high demand, so perhaps those that perpetuate such a risk should pay a premium?

The true cost of power is not what you say it is

Dan you are showing the market price of electricity in the province also known as the Hourly Ontario Energy Price or HOEP. There is another factor called the Global Adjustment which is additive to the HOEP.
Most of the electricity generated in the province is under contract which means that when the market price is low, these generation contracts must be paid by a separate pool of money called the Global Adjustment.

The "true" cost of power is the HOEP plus the Global adjusment with is about 6 cents. And we pay this even if we conserve and dont use the power.

TOU and conservation will only save us money if we are not required to contract any further generation. However the green energy act will see much more contracted generation for the next 20 years, and these contracts will be paid even if we dont use the power.

True cost of power

So if the rate that consumers get charged for electricity is at least 5.7 cents (on the non-TOD system), then doesn't that mean that the price of electricity is continuously subsidized no matter what? What's the point of the HOEP at all if there isn't a true market anyway?

Smart Meter/Dumb Meter

I fail to see what the incentive is here for me to sign up for the smart meters, especially if one is already energy concious. I live in Ottawa and we got a call from the energy company to come and install a "smart meter", which we agreed to (apparently at no cost to us!), but then we sold our house and cancelled the installation, thinking that it was not fair for us to pass this on to the new owner. We recently bought a new house, it does not have air, so no smart meter for now. I've been doing a lot of research and I've come to the conclusion that unless a legislation is passed, I'll pass on the 'dumb meter'. We always install CFL in our homes, I rarely use the dryer, even in the winter, I'll hang clothes up, I generally run the dishwasher overnight, our appliances are efficient and I dislike air conditioning and avoid using it unless my husband starts to complain too much ;) Hence, the 'dumb meter' sounds like more headaches than its worth! At the same time there are a lot of people who would wake up to their wasteful ways. This summer has been cool here in Ottawa, many mornings the temp. is below 18 degrees celsius, when I walk my dog, most of the a/c units on the houses are going full blast, when all it would take to cool the house is opening some windows! Likewise during the day, when no one is home, a/c is going at full tilt!

That's the PeakSaver Program, not Time-of-Day Billing

I think you're talking about the PeakSaver devices that shut down air conditioners when the grid gets overloaded and cause your house to warm up a few degrees (on likely the hottest days of the year when your a/c can't even keep up). Personally, I think PeakSaver makes more sense for devices like fridges and chest freezers that can survive many hours without electricity, but the energy usage reduction just isn't as great, but he inconvenience sure is less.

Smart meters NOT SO SMART! CONSUMER BEWARE!

Smart meters have been on my house since Jan 2008.
I have recently escalated a dispute about Smart meters to Measurements Canada!

After months of high bills, and doing everything I could do to curb my usage, my bills were still high.I complained about my "high bill" through the proper channels, and after their rude customer service telling me basically "pay or get disconnected"

I requested that my meter be checked or changed ,2 people from Hydro One showed up to "test" my smart meter.

They spent the first part of our meeting in my lane way , telling me that the meters are never wrong, and that, if they were wrong they always errored by billing less electricity than was used, they slowed down.

I had been warned that if the meter was in error, I would be billed the difference.

Perhaps that WAS the case with old analog meters, with gears and magnets, but it is definitely NOT the case with my new Smart meter.

After removing my meter and hooking up their test equipment, between the meter and the house, they ran the test, High load (30 amp) and Low load (3 amp)

I watched the display closely as it displayed 173.x% high load and 173.x% low load.

You should have seen them, the look on their face was shocking, they re did everything a second time, checking each step, SAME RESULTS!

After getting another similar meter, from a different manufacturer, from their truck, they ran the tests again, with this meter in place of mine.
The substitute meter was reading at 100%.

They told me that I was the first person they had ever seen with a bad meter. (reading too much)

Measurements Canada is now involved, We will get to the bottom of this.

Hydro One will owe me a refund cheque.
And some apologies from the persons at the billing office, that refused to believe that I could possibly be correct.

And perhaps some changes need to be made in the roll out of these to ensure accuracy.Before thousands of consumers get ripped off, and abused by the collections staff.

I went out and bought a "TED" The Energy Detective, it reads the loads on the inside of your house,and logs all to a computer, it further verified the test results. Much more on the meter outside than I was actually using.

The power monitor from Black and Decker only monitors the optical port of the meter, so it will not catch a bad meter.

CONSUMER BEWARE!!

Horizon Utilities = Fraud

Horizon Utilities has real smart meters and ways to do business. Here's an example how they can rip you off.
You did the laundry, vacuuming, cooking , baking all Sunday and used 60 kWh at the lowest rate.
Then on Monday and Tuesday you do nothing and consume an average 20 kWh/ day.
You log into your account to view your smart meter consumption and savings, and your eyes pop out.
For Sunday you see 30 kWh consumed, for Monday 50, and Tuesday 20.
What happened? They stopped the readings in the middle of Sunday, skipped Monday and started shortly after Monday midnight.
Actual readings are 2260 kWh and 2280kWh for Sunday and Monday midnight, consecutively.
Their readings are 2230 kWh (their last reading on Sunday) and 2280 for Monday midnight.
The difference 50 kWh goes to Monday and most of it is placed as red bars...
That's Horizon Utilities with logo "Looking beyond". Yeah, they are looking far beyond usual corporate fraud.
Check your power consumption regularly! and yes, BEWARE.

smart meters

I also am going through a dispsute for my meter, and have also bought a TED. My meter is baked! Surprisingly, I have been speaking with atleast 8 people in my immediate area, and there's has gone out of whack since the new smart meters were installed.
Sounds like unless you speak up, have it checked, you'll be paying double what you should be, then when pay per use comes in, you'll be paying not double, but triple!
My supplier, unlike Hydro One, WILL NOT DO A THING, NOT CHECK ANYTHING. Something wrong with this picture. It's their device, I pay them all year long, but they have no responsibility?????
Get these 'smart' meters off our homes, until you can guarantee reliablity.

smart meter

Hi,
I read your note about new hydro meters.

Ontario Hydro installed a new meter (it's not a smart meter but a new digital meter) on my cottage last June without my knowledge, which they only read once a year.

So I got a huge bill this July saying that my daily usage - which had been around 31 kwh per day for the last 4 years since I built the cottage - jumped to 45 kwh per day for the last year (we have made no changes to the cottage and in fact have used the cottage less last year).

I asked for a meter test appointment and when he arrived he couldn't get the tester to work with the meter. The service person got another meter out of the truck and got the tester to work with that one. He made a lot of phone calls read his manual still couldn't get it to work on our meter. He said that he couldn't get the laser or infraed red eye to line up - so he left and said he would be back.

He showed up without notice as I was rushing to leave the house so I did not have a chance to see what he was doing as far as the test goes. However, he told me that it was working properly and that first time he was using the wrong part of the tester on the meter - don't really know what this means...

Based on your experience with meters/testing etc do you have any suggestions. All suggestions are welcome.

Smart Meter Accuracy

At least your meter was obviously faulty. Who knows how many meters are out there that might be off ~10%-20%, of which most are unlikely to notice. This is Canada, electricity usage varies greatly month to month as it is.As with any instrumentation, a test of its accuracy/precision at the factory doesn't mean it will perform that way after installation.Do let us know what Measurement Canada's response is.

Not so smart meter

Just read your story ....looks like I'm having the same problem and I'm having hydro out to test my meter this week....just wondering what part of the province you live and manuf of you faulty meter

Not so Smart meters!

Thought I'd post an update on the process so far.

Well I attended the meter test, at Measurements Canada.
I'd suggest anyone asking for a meter dispute to do the same, good learning experience, and keeps everyone "honest" in the process. You will receive a copy of the test results that are mailed to the utility.

My meter had a barrage of tests ran, and every test came out with a different result.

I had a low reading of only 103% actual to a high reading of over 200% actual.

Measurements Canada concluded:
> that the meter is unreliable and meter readings are not valid, therefore it is the opinion of Measurement Canada that the billing be reviewed and consumption estimated for the period that meter XXXXX was in service. The estimate should be based on the previous meter that was associated with this account.<

That is over a years usage.. and a years estimates, I used 750 to 1300KW a month on the old meter, before I put in all my energy saving items.So I actually should use less than the old meter usage.. But one step at a time...We'll see where it goes from there.

Measurements Canada does not control what the utility does, they can only state their opinion, they cannot force the utility to do anything.

I am having some difficulty, still, from the utility, Hydro One, getting through the bureaucracy, that is in their billing department.

Got a bill from May for 5500Kw+ (no furnace running, and I don't have central air)..

When I tried to reason with them,I get the runaround.

Goes like this...

Call "customer service"
Credits are done by the adjustments department... OK
Can't transfer to them..have to talk to a supervisor.. OK
Can't transfer to them.. make an appointment they'll call you within 48hrs.. OK
..unless you call Friday morning, then they call you Tuesday..right while you're at lunch..
Phone tag, you're it!

(repeat above process until you want to bang your head against the meter)

The best one was when I was told that the "adjustments department" does not have phones.. they work "offline"

I think this really means off-continent, Back in North America :)

What a world we live in!

Anyways I live in Middlesex County, south western Ontario.

My "smart meter" is really a slot machine. ;) made by Landis and Gyr a "focus" with 2.23 firmware for your reference..

On a positive note, they replaced my meter 2 Wednesdays ago with a GE model, and I have only used 366Kw in 2 weeks, that's a far cry from the 5500+Kw that they billed me for last month.. OUCH and I have learned a lot about the regulations and acts that govern meters and their calibration, and inspection.

This matches my TED metered usage to within +-2Kw, that's a difference I can live with.

Keep :)N

Variable rate meters

Nice to hear that you found a way to keep them honest!

i maintain mine has been turned down, yousee i have a new account, & they say my old meter was stuck for one year, so it seems that some simply cranked my meter for 9 months . . . my trust in the ultility is now completely gone.

Here are my smart meter #'s, I have done tests:
1.) 115 kwh in 23 hrs 30 degrees outside . . .
2.) 2400 kwh in 36 days with no one home . . . house at 9 degrees
3.) Last visit 18 kwh in 24 hrs . . .
4.)18700 watt load for 6 min = 3kwh logged ,should have been 1.87kwh

Maybe a lawsuit is in order or at the very least tell us who controls the interface with these meters we are supposed to blindly trust, which by the way i do not. i want to see the full schematic of this thing. Ther is a law firm ready to take this on, see my link & click on the discussion board!

one idea is an aluminum rain cover (to protect you prized meter) aluminum blocks RF signal!

i am mid process at Measurements Canada at 1~877~325~3996 to start the complaint process, they say that it takes 4~6 weeks And your meter is shipped to them & you can be present for the actual testing. but again i think the rate at which they read can be changed remotely . . . so i doubt this W&M test will prove anything.

LINK: go to facebook & amp; search "Dark Era of the Smart Meter"

Fred J Baron

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Dark-Era-of-the-Smart-Meter/115605681812784?ref=ts

thanks for this post... it

thanks for this post...

it really helps us all when we find out facts this way,

btw, where did you get your TED? How much did it cost you? What are the steps to get it up and running?

a stealth price hike

there is no way this is anything but a BIG hike in electricity rates. I will further state that the charge passed on to us for the meter is at least 3X the actual cost. Gouging the public once again, when will it end

Smart Meters

I agree with your comments Dan. But you have mentioned the "rental" price per month for the smart meter - I head that it will be about $2.00/month. So tack that onto your bill also!!!

And McGuinty tried to tell us we would same money - not on your life!!!

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